7/3 Health Care Proposed Fines Are Also Called “Shared Responsibility Payments”
Posted by Editor on July 2, 2009 · 275 Comments
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DO NOT WANT.
If you decide to opt out of health care coverage, no amount of fines in the world will change people's minds. This is just another tax wthout calling it a tax. Just like our new "green" Cap and Trade laws. Its all about shrinking people's perception of the amount of freedom they enjoy until you hit the panic level, then its too late.
Some of we the people have odd priorities; so wrapped up "in the moment" and emotionally charged are we yet having the government straight out tell us that we cannot provide for ourselves a home, career, health care and hometraining for our kids raises nary an eyebrow. In fact it brings cheers and tears.
They have told us they have no faith in our abilities, potential or willingness to overcome any hardships in our path. Yet we have legally entered people from all over the world partaking of our schools, hospitals, real estate, jobs and reveling in the freedoms we take for granted (and seem eager to give up to the government) and achieving the American Dream.
Since when do we the people need our generousity to be mandated? Since when do we the people eschew personal choice for government rule? Since when do we the people blindly accept failing current and proposed policies, on our dollar? Many of us have a lot to answer for, falling for word play and marketing. Look beyond the commercial break, soundbite, headline, and take an interest in the actual substance, not the appearence.
The people who will have their income "given" to others by the government aren't the ones who are in favor of these policies. This is a textbook case of people voting themselves other people's money, and politicans using the greed and envy of the public to amass their own power.
“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”
- Ben Franklin
Soylent Green!!! Yummy Obama food!!
IT'S MADE OF PEOPLE!
From newt.org: "President Obama said something at his White House healthcare event last week that offers a disturbing hint of our future under his vision of health reform. He suggested one way to save costs is not to spend on procedures that “evidence shows [are] not necessarily going to improve care” for the sick and the dying. 'Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller,' the President said.
Maybe. But the question is, who decides? "
http://newt.org/tabid/102/articleType/ArticleView...
The point is, you will have less options under OBAMACARE, and the final decision will be a government bureaucrat. They will be making life and death decisions for you instead of your Doctor.
Some countries can't get narcotic-level painkillers due to our regulation and red-tape, so their citizenry simply can't get anything more powerful than an aspirin. When the pain become unbearable, they hang themselves or jump in front of a truck.
First it'll be those "expensive" operations, and then it'll be those "expensive" drugs and painkillers.
Yes we can!
I'm really struggling with this. Beyond the massiave intrusion, cost and inefficiecny of the federal govt, why is it usurping the power of the state and how it's citizens choose to live? If they want to follow the model of a leftist state, such as MA, why shouldn't the position be that the federal tells the state govt's that this is thestates responsiblity.
I personally abohr almost all state and federal programs, as they manage their programs to at best, the average, or more often then not, the least common denominator.
I have called and written repeatedly to both of my socialist Senators to vote no on any form of federal healthcare – but it's for naught. I have to watch other, and more courageous ones cast their no votes. I admit to having a sick feeling in my stomache on this issue though
It's a very simple formula: They use other people's money to buy votes. However, if these redistributionist programs were only had on the state level everyone with money would naturally leave those states. The answer is to push everythin "up" to the Federal level, so that no matter what state you run to, you're still supporting failure.
there is only one real reason—to spy on the practices of doctors and the habits of people. If you are VA and have medicare, you are automatically linked and even if you just didn't like the doctor at the VA and wanted a second opinion, you are red-flagged and it is brought to your attention that you colored outside the imaginary lines.
It is obvious to me, after reading about such folks as Healh Ledger, Anna-Nichole Smith and Michael Jackson, some doctors are very willing to comply with drug seeking behavior and perhaps that is what BIG BROTHER would like to stop. But honestly….whatever happened to privacy and patient autonomy? I guess that stuff is gone with wind in the Brave New World. Big Brother knows best……don't buck Big Brother!
Yes, Best Practices are usually set by the profession. IN Obamacare, that professional standard will be uprooted and replaced by the government one—that will probably be driven largely by the medical practitioners in public health and the military. Sorry, a standard that is derived by a practitioner caring for young, otherwise healthy individuals are simply not realistic to guide the practice of someone caring for the elderly. I will give you an example. A young soldier has been wounded by an IED and has a simple amputation. At first, he will need assistance to get up to use a bedside commode, but within a day or two can manage with crutches to make it to the restroom unaided. Try that with a 90 year old in frail health who can't see or hear well, is combative and confused. It might take half of your afternoon to assist this one person to the restroom just to heed the call of nature. The government is too much one size fits all. And guess who lays out the pattern!
I have been reading that some are advocating possibly making OTC meds like tylenol prescribed meds. Again, I think that this is not because there is such inherent risk in taking tylenol, but rather that big brother eventually wants to know exactly what you are buying, how often you are using that med and control its use. They made up a flimsy excuse about pseudophedrine and now most cold meds are kept behind the pharmacy counter (like that would really stop a criminal drug abuser). Pretty soon, about the only meds we might be able to get without a trip to the doctor will be for marijuana.
Best practices are already the norm. Look at your hospital and see about its JCHAO rating. This quasi-governmental body holds large sway with hospitals— a bad rating cuts your chances for many government perks and advertising kudos. But is a JCHAO rating really that important?
yOu absolutely won't get to keep your preferred provider. You will get who ever is on call. And yes, employers are not going to provide insurance when a government alternative is available. And yes, the biggest losers in all of this will be family and general practitioners. Consultants can demand and still receive handsome sums, but the family provider will probably be making about $20 an hour and working their rears off or simply not caring about the wait times and the comfort levels of their clients. Go to a DMV or a VA and you will see the attitude on broad display. In health care we refer to the huddled masses as GOMERS—get out of my emergency room.
That has been going on for some time now. We measure stats like morbidity, but refuse to realize that at some point in time, we are all going to add to that statistic. What they should be measuring is satisfaction and really ONLY satisfaction. If a person gets cancer and it is time to go, would they rather suffer for six years or six months? That is their choice. This is why I think government needs to get out of health care and let the consumer and the provider work out the plan of action and who will pay what. Doctors with poor results or with no 'bedside manner' will quickly get put out of business. Those who work hard at giving the client what THEY want, and making sure it is ONLY that, and not a bunch more needs to be praised, not harassed.
And we really do need to use common sense. My grandson was playing on a new toy called a ripstick and he fell—skinning and lacerating his knee. My ex-daughter-in-law took him straight to an emergency room (even though after hours clinics were open). The docs there put in four stitches and x-rayed his knee (for what I don't know). Then they instructed them to have the knee checked 48 hours later to make certain it was not infected (instead of just describing what an infected knee might look like). And then of course, my grandson has to get the stitches out in a week. Three trips to a doctor and one scabbed knee that 30 years ago wouldn't have been a big deal. I bet the whole thing costs over $1,000! Good grief! Spend a few minutes and teach this mother a little about wound care and prevention! Where was the kid's knee pads, etc,? Too much care is as bad as none at all.
You're right EricaD you shouldn't be responsible for their choices and you shouldn't have to feel bad for their bad choices making their own lives more difficult, but unfortunately the left doesn't operate in what is right or just, they operate on fear and crisis designed to divide and amass power. People like us get in the way of that so our rights are trampled so that they can achieve their goals at our expense.
And to think, people who scam others, like Bernie Madoff, go to jail; yet our elected officials scam us all day long, sucking money away from supporting our families and we reward them with re-election.
People, let's grab the torches and pitchforks and start driving these crooks from office! We continually allow them to pay lip service to the Constitution, and violate the principles of it each and every day, while we quietly complain and hand over the additional fees, tax, or whatever label they create to describe a new tax as. ENOUGH ALREADY!
Why should I pay for someone who would rather use his or her money to go on vacation, buy a giant TV, buy an iPod OR do drugs, smoke cigarettes and drink to oblivion rather than buy health insurance?
I've always seen health and life insurance as a "necessity" like gas and electric, mortgage, telephone bill, etc.
I use MY money "wisely". I pay my bills, pay them on time, and live within my means. People like me are being PUNISHED for being "responsible" – I'm not even being "asked" – the money is being taken from me and it's being used unwisely and being wasted. DISGRACEFUL.
the most ridiculous crap ive heard in a long time
I just have one thing to say
WE
ARE
SCREWED!
A call for America to wake up—–
Most people have no idea what they are in for if nationalized health passes. This is a wake up call.
Physicians will be working under government approved "guidelines." The
government will sanction Physicians who deviate from their "guidelines,"
which means your Physician will be unable to tailor treatment for you
without risking government penalties. You will be unable to discuss your
treatment with your Physician to decide what is best for you. This is not
fantasy, this is already in place in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is the
only state that has mandated universal health care coverage and this is how
they manage costs, more later.
See my next post
Why do you think the administration is trying to implement a mandatory national
electronic (computerized) medical record system? They are trying
to mandate that every Physician, even those in private practice connect to
the system and maintain their medical records online. This simplifies their
task of monitoring Physician medical practices to ensure that they conform
to "guidelines."
Have you heard the code word "best practices" the administration speaks of when talking about
controlling costs?
"Best practices" is government code for, "We know best how to treat
patients. You Doctors will do it our way, the cheap way, or we will make
you wish you had. We will have our selected specialists write guidelines
for treating all manner of illness. We will officially approve the
guidelines. If you accept government payment for providing medical care, we
expect you to follow our 'best practices' guidelines. If you fail to do
so, we will penalize you by reducing your payments, and
requiring you to attend education seminars with other 'substandard' Doctors
so you can 'learn' our 'best practices' guidelines. Obviously you are not a
very good Doctor if you fail to follow our 'guidelines,' because we have
searched the world over to find the 'best practices' which we have shared
with you, but you are failing to comply. Therefore we will give you a
chance to become 'better educated.'"
see next post
Iti s already here. Has been since 1984. Every doctor has to submit a standardized diagnosis code and then choose from an array of standardized treatment option codes. If your doctor is a maverick, wants to try a different approach, or is attempting an experimental treatment, he or she will be spotted right away and not paid for that treatment by Medicare or leading insurers, even if the treatment is very effective and works well. This is all part of managed "Planned care." What I don't like about it is that it treats medicine as a science and not an art (it is really both), and completely denies the possibility that other methods might work better or be more acceptable to the culture of the patient. Although managed care can provide some cost containment and help providers get a certain skill set, it is boring, monotonous and sometimes just plain wrong. I will give an example. 40 years ago people who got peptic ulcers were thought to be 'nervous' and unable to handle stress. We treated ulcers with stuff like milk and told them to avoid spicy foods and sodas. The standard of care was just to monitor for perforation—a life threatening condition. About 20 years ago some docs who though outside the box realized that peptic ulcers were caused by a tiny micro-organism and didn't have anything to do with stress. These doctors started treating with acid inhibiters and antibiotics specific to the critters causing the ulcers and a vast majority of the ulcers quickly were healed. What if these doctors were told that they could ONLY practice with the standards of that time? What if they hadn't wondered if a bacteria could live in the caustic environment of stomach acid? Medicine is simply too variable to practice that way–one size fits all, rigidly adhering to what others believe or teach. We must have innovation and flexibility in health care. Both of those are dirty words to bureaucrats.
From newt.org: "President Obama said something at his White House healthcare event last week that offers a disturbing hint of our future under his vision of health reform. He suggested one way to save costs is not to spend on procedures that “evidence shows [are] not necessarily going to improve care” for the sick and the dying. 'Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller,' the President said.
Maybe. But the question is, who decides? "
http://newt.org/tabid/102/articleType/ArticleView...
The point is, you will have less options under OBAMACARE, and the final decision will be a government bureaucrat. They will be making life and death decisions for you instead of your Doctor.
From what I've read, if you and your employer are happy with the insurance provided — you can keep it. BUT you ALSO get to contribute to the Government plan, and so does your employer!
Tell me how that is supposed to be competitive? Has the Government EVER been competitive with private industry? People do not value that which costs them nothing. Folks on government-paid-for or government-subsidized health insurance will still go to the emergency room for a head cold, a bruised rib or a stubbed toe — just like they do today!
I also question how there cannot be long wait times for basic procedures, consultations, etc. when Obama proposes to add 30-40 million people to the health care system (including 20 million ILLEGALS) but is doing nothing to increase the number of hospital beds, number of nurses and doctors, number of MRI machines, etc. This is basic math here people!!
The government fining people for failing to have health insurance is clearly anti-Constitutional. I don't have insurance against lightening striking me either…is it the government's job to make sure I buy some? How I spend what little money I have after paying all the other taxes should be up to me! By the way, add up all of those taxes sometime and you will see that if you are middle class like I am, you already pay way more than half of your income to the government. You would choose to pay more?? That's just nuts!
P.S. I've seen the public hospitals in Mexico — no one goes there unless they are already mostly dead. Folks who can pay extra to go to a private doctor, a private hospital, etc. because the public ones are atrocious.
So it still gets back to those that have the money, get the best care. But instead of there being a middle of the road….now you are either poor or extreemly wealthy and delt with accordingly.
It's the Jedi Mind Trick!!
Obama says – "Everything is just swell!"
America says – "Everything is just swell!"
And if we don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain we fall for it -
Hmmmm, this kinda reminds me of a tax put on tea…….. the time is getting nearer.
Civil war is nearer than you think. But, that is what they want. When they get that, they will excersise the rest of the agenda and martial law.
It is time that We The People become the Donald Trumps of this great Nation. Each and everyone of us needs to call all Senators, Congressman, Representatives etc. and tell them YOU'RE FIRED! Pack your bags and get out of town! It is time that those who are voted into office to work for us actually do the job for US and not for their own personal gains. Enough is Enough!
The goverment restructuring health care. Do we all remeber Ted Kennedy and the Health Maintence Organiztion (HMO) legislation. What was that designed to accomplish and how did it turn out? What I propose is to start our own health care company (citizens health) no deductables you pay all doctors visits , prescriptions, emergency room visits when you are not admitted to the hospital. The policy will cover all major medical expense. A single person pays $200.00 per month, a family pays $400.00 per month. There will be no insurance papers as all providers are approved. The choice of where to go is yours. All procedures are negociated so the rate is the same no matter where you go. It is as simple as it needs to be which is why the federal and state goverments will oppose it. They can not get their fingers into the pie.
In my opinion, HMO's were the beginning of the end.
Don't we have some kind of freedom of choice thing?
I hope this bill passes then we can bring it to the Supreme Court and have it over turned in the face of all these &^$#$% %@#$! *&^%$ #&($#@ &*^%&, pardon my English. I have never had health coverage. Why do they call it health care, it should be called sick and hurt care right? Anyway I never get sick, maybe a cold every other year, I've never had the flu and I've been to the hospital twice in the last 14 years. One was for a broken nose that I got defending the honor of a lady. That cost me $280 and I had to get my face stitched up after a metal stud track slide off the wall I leaned it against and smacked me in the face. That cost me $650, it would have been $950 but I took the stitches out my self. I also get my teeth cleaned for $89 that I pay cash for and the last oral problem I had cost me about $500. $89 times 2 times 20 equals $3560 plus $500 plus $280 plus $650 equals $4990 divided by 14 equals $356.42 a year for the last fourteen years.
I realize not everyone is lucky enough to never get sick or have kids that need to be covered, but all the coverage that I have refused in the last 14 years was on average $150 a month and there's 168 months in 14 years. That equals $25,200, I think I'm a little ahead of the curve and don't understand why the Federal Gov. wants to force me to have insurance. I turn 40 next year and plan on getting heart attack and cancer insurance, $75 a month with a $5000 deductible. I think I heard that coverage isn't enough for the @#$&% ^&*$% )!@$# in congress. Who the hell are they to say I should have or what kind of 'healthcare' I must have. %^&$ them!
What was it Obama said during his little Infomercial? "If you like the provider you have, you can keep them. and we will provide an alternative for those who dont have any." and then he said under his breath "But if you refuse our health care you will be fined a $1000.00" I first believed the intentions might be good but now forcing it down our throats like some DICTATING ASSHOLE. Im about to pick up smoking again because this stuff is unbelievable. VOTE OBAMA AND THOSE LEFTIST EXTREMISTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!!
Can you provide a video or audio clip of proof that he said that under his breath? It's not that I don't believe you, I would just like to see/hear it for myself.
im sry. i didnt mean for it to seem like an actaull quote. i was more stating that during that infomercial he didnt say anything about it. I know he didnt say it under his breath, i was just tryin to get accross that i "love" how he left that part out.
i just have one thing to say : BULLSH1T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's truly amazing the crap these people are coming up with. They have no shame or fear for the things they are perpetrating on the American people. I hope those who voted this P.O.S. in realize now the error of their ways. Not all of them are that stupid, I hope. Looks like Sara is going to enter the fight full time, good for her. That is one classy lady, a real breath of fresh air. To bad she had to run with that RINO McCain, well at least the American people got a chance to meet her. I'll support her for anything she wants to run for, I would hope she would make a run for the top spot in 2012. She represents real change we really can believe in, all my best to her.
Here we go. The US economy is not coming back right now. Let me share some of the headlines that http://www.americanparchment.com reported: New York City Sees Slide in Tourism, NY City Apartment Sales Down More Than 50%, 'We're in the Middle of a Crash': Black Swan, US jobs data dash recovery hopes, No Decision Yet on More Stimulus, Dow Slides Almost 200 After Weak Jobs Report, Retailers cut 21,000 jobs in June, Job Losses Accelerated in June, 467000 Jobs Lost in June; Unemployment Reaches 9.5%, CA: State rolls out $3.36 billion in IOUs today, and Schwarzenegger Orders Shutdown as Budget Gap Grows. This was just yesterday's headlines. President Obama said the economy was so bad when it hadn't turned too bad. Now he is telling us that the economy is coming back when it is still tanking. I don't know where he gets his news but we are in the middle of it. He is going to be another Carter with all these programs squandering our Tax-Payer dollars while unemployment continues to slide his whole term. I hope I am wrong but look at what he is doing to our dollar and deficit. Will China keep buying our Bonds, most likely not.
There is no difference between a fine and a tax. Both have the same objective – raising government revenue.
Don't forget "fee". LOL
Don't forget "INVESTMENT in our future". All Progressive word play for TAX.
There's also no difference between a "law" and an "Executive Order", except that because the President doesn't have the Constitutional power to create laws, he simply calls them "Executive Orders" instead.
"Constitutional limitations on Government"? Nothing a little imaginative language and a few Progressives judges can't overcome.
True. That is why executive order 11110 was never implemented.
Will all 27 million illegals be covered too? Wait, isn't that really what this national healthcare (share the wealth) scheme is all about? Just remember, anyone over 55 that has a serious illness will soon be turned out to die since they will be a poor healthcare "investment".
Notice that the proposed program fines businesses $750 per year per employee that they don't cover? On its face it seems to punish businesses for dropping employees from their healthcare coverage, but it is just the opposite. The $750 fine is much less than the thousands it costs an employer for each employees healthcare coverage so this plan is actually Comrade Obama's incentive to get businesses to drop their employees coverage so that the people will be forced to get their own coverage or face their own $1000 fine. Of course the government healthcare plan will be cheaper than private plans due to tax payer subsidies so people will all turn to the government socialized healthcare plan…..Presto, we are now all part of socialized medicine and dependant on government for our very lives.
Scary isn't it?
First time in my life that I have been scared of my government and the future of our country. At least I had 43 years of freedom, but I feel for the kids who may never taste it geann.
why not just hold a gun to our heads, talk about a loss of freedom and liberties. this administration is so over reaching the next thing they will be legislating is what brand of toilet paper we can use. that is, of course, only if they decide we can continue to use toilet paper .
Maybe we'll only be able to use "green" paper. Or buy it a sheet at a time, like they used to do in the old USSR.
Put your head between your knees, this one is going to hurt, alot!!!
"Government takes from the needy and gives to the greedy"………………..Ronald Reagan
Thief in Chief's idea of taxing employer based health insurance is not going over well, so this is his alternative for funding gov't health care. This is desperation….instead of it being a tax increase, it's called a "fine". I'm sure alot of employers would rather pay the $750 per worker fine instead of the premiums….would save them alot of money.
Actually I believe that is the idea "nomoreliberals". I believe Obama and his fellow Comrades plan to make the tax….err excuse me, the fine, $750 because it will purposely entice employers to drop their employees from their own healthcare system since $750 per employee is much cheaper than the several thousand employers now pay to provide healthcare for their employees. Once the employees are dumped from their employers coverage they then have to get their own healthcare or get fined $1000 themselves. People who don't want the coverage will now pay $1000 and their employers will have paid $750 all to have one person not get covered for any healthcare service at all. Isn't it great to make $1,750 per person and not have to provide them anything! Oh, and if that employee does decide to get their own healthcare coverage guess which one will be the cheapest one to buy? That's right, the government plan that is subsidized by tax payer dollars conceived to under-cut private healthcare options eventually driving them out of business. But according to Obama we have a choice……I wish the choice was to do what Honduras did to their dictator.
Thats reminds me….. I need to clean my gun
There are about 20 million illegals not insured but they will be when we get Govt. health care and then we will have more people breaking our laws because after all if its free come and get it. They are not working on a bill to give la raza many more new american citizens they can teach to get fradulent votes for the dems along with acorn. When Holder said white doesn't count he meant it. I believe that was having to do with the New haven fire fighters actually getting a win in the Supreme Court. I have no problem with immigration, provided it is done legally and the people immigrating work on assimilation. This is America, it is not little Italy, or Greece or Mexico or any other country, it is America. If you want to obey it's laws and salute its flag, come, if not stay the heck home.
There are about 20 million illegals not insured but they will be when we get Govt. health care and then we will have more people breaking our laws because after all if its free come and get it. The are not working on a bill to give la raza many more new american citizens they can teach to get fradulent votes for the dems along with acorn. When Holder said white doesn't count he meant it. I believe that was having to do with the New haven fire fighters actually getting a win in the Supreme Court. I have no problem with immigration, provided it is done legally and the people immigrating work on assimilation. This is America, it is not little Italy, or Greece or Mexico or any other country, it is America. If you want to obey it's laws and salute its flag, come, if not stay the heck home.
I will absolutely REFUSE to switch to government healthcare.
And should they fine me, I'd love to see them try and enforce it. Because I won't pay it, either – Even by court order.
And should they come and arrest me, I will fight back.
As much as it pains me to say this, the Tea Parties are accomplishing nothing. The liberals in charge are just sitting back, and laughing at us. I think we may have to start stooping to their level.
Obama's gotta go. If it takes violence to do it, so be it – I've had enough. I'm willing to sacrifice my very life to overthrow this fascist. And if you wanna ban my account, so be it. One can only take so much…
Obama Failed Healthcare Policies: The reason BO believes we need socialized medicine is that nearly 50 million people (not all are American citizens) are uninsured so therefore we will fine those who refuse coverage $1,000 each. Once we exempt non-taxpayers, illegal immigrants, unions, government workers, and other Obama supporters, that only leaves you and me to pay the fine or get taxed on our existing health care coverage.
And the last time that I looked the State that brings us Teddy the K, John (I served in Vietnam) Kerry, and our boy Barney (everybody should own a house) Frank, was almost bankrupt from their experiment with socialized medicine and high taxes. The most liberal state in the U.S. without a single Republican lawmaker is not an example to pattern anything after.
Amen
That's it! This is a classic case of Progressivism, in that they are using one group to destroy and control another. First, they(whether they know it or not) are using the uninsured, a lot being illegals to destroy and shrink the independent minded middle-class down to one level with the poor. Then, the unions and other Democrat contributors(other than billionaires or those in the know) will have their standard of living lowered, and the union members don't even have the insight to see it coming.
Great comment! Socialist DEMS have been playing one group against another since I can remember. And there so called solutions are never for them, just us. Example: Healthcare. Do any of these BO sponsored plans include the Federal workers? Congress’ health care? No, because they know that if they offer that to us peons outside of DC, they will bankrupt us even faster than BO’s current timetable. And is BO going to have his kids treated under socialized medicine? How about giving us citizens Congress retirement plan?
We should not be surprised in what Obama is doing. He told Joe the Plumber he wanted to share the wealth. Seems he wants to share ours not his. I feel Obama is out to destroy the middle class. Cap and Trade, Obamacare will go a long way towards doing this. Remember when Obama says insure all Americans he includes illegals in this.
I realized how completely, totally helpless, large numbers of people really are after watching the evacuation of New Orleans. No personal responsibility whatsoever. We are paying for massive amounts of healthcare costs not only on illegal aliens about also our own citizens. The middle class is almost gone, study well paying jobs with a pension and other benefits will soon be history. Our government must realize, we are bled dry, there's nothing left to take. There is no way in Hell we can pay for this and the other bills this administration wants to put into law.
Hmm, there is always our children, and you can bet your azz they will not rest until they are in labor camps.
Welfare for generations is reperations enough. My family was dirt poor and they never got a dime. They never owned a slave. There hasn't been one single group of people who haven't suffered. I mean why did people come here to begin with? FREEDOM!!! They were punished and for lack of better words, slaves, to where ever they fled from. There hasn't been a group who wasn't held back, or had to play catch up in one way or another. My ancestors have been here for 17 generations. My grandfather couldn't read. My Dad was one of the first to graduate highschool, I was one of the first to go to college. And we have people, expecting to have it ALL just handed to them. RIGHT NOW!!!! Heck we have illegals demanding it all and they can't abide by simple rules. We have a President who didn't spend much more than half his life living in this country. GENERATIONS worked and fought for what we have and they expect to just grab it all and hand it over with ease. America and every country on this Earth had slavery. We didn't invent it. Their OWN people sold them for profit. I'm with you…..to what rightful owners?
What a bunch of sicko people we have in washington, Obama, Palosi, Biden, I can't believe this is happening, May God Help Us All! We're on a frieght train going a trillion miles per hour into outter space LMBO, I'm starting to believe this is another 9/11 within the system and no one is blinking an eye, if you think an inside job would never happen, I'm sure everyone would have thought that the day before 9/11 too. Everyone I know is calling this an inside 9/11, pethedic, where is Obama birth certificate already!!!
Wake up people,
God can not save us. We have to stand up and fight in the streets or lose our country.
Not on subject but don't know if most of you have seen this or not…
Sarah Palin is stepping down from Governor of Alaska
I have the perfect solution…….Canada has a population of more than 30 million people and the liberals apparently are in love with that health care system…….so if that system works,I'm sure that enough Americans can form a health care group equal or greater to 30 million……they can pay taxes to their group and all hospital charges can be paid from the taxes the group members pay………and any American is free to join this group…….and if there isn't enough money to pay for all bills,the tax would be raised on these group members only…….if you would rather have your own health plan or no health plan at all that would be up to you….On paper,this sounds like a brilliant idea can anyone figure out the flaw in this system?
Thank you, I just hope it does some good.
Just when you thought they had reached the height of stupidity they out do themselves once more. This is what happens when the inmates run the asylum.
They need to be voted out in 2010, that is assuming by then we still have the right to vote.
I believe everone has the right to be a moron, however our elected officials and those who voted for them are abusing the privilege.
This is not working for Mass. and is bankrupting them. And speaking of "shared responsibility" media knows that Obama illegal aunt Zeituni is living in Boston public housing. Not reported but probable then is her getting food stamps and us paying for her medical care. As MA taxpayer, I've written to white house asking when Obuma will pay for his aunts upkeep and possibly repay Mass. taxpayers for the YEARS she's been living off us. I get no reply
I'd like to know where the "sharing" comes in. Sharing is for mutual enjoyment. I don't know what word discribes this, but it's some people just take and take and do nothing to benefit or improve my life or theirs and others no matter what they do, they are just giving and giving and giving and getting nothing. I mean I am not even in the middle class catagory and know without a doubt, according to what they are saying, that there will be some massive loophole in there that will exempt me from benefiting from any of this "sharing"….and still end up paying.
I am so glad that the government lets me keep so much of the money I work hard to earn. I mean I get to have just more than have of it to spend after all the sales taxes income SS taxes medicare taxes property taxes registration fees license fees are paid, I feel really privileged that they let me keep anything.
sshhh They probably just haven't realized you're keeping some. Now that you told them, government will just have to tax you more.
I don't think they'll be happy til you just work and hand them your check, for them to decide what it is that you deserve to be granted. Depending on where you live, there literally won't be anything left for discretionary spending. I mean OK…I've had my property taxes doubled, they have raised the taxes for tags and such, they're looking to raise income tax 50% in my state, car and house insurance went up this year, they already tagged 10 bucks a carton on cigarettes to insure the kiddies…..these guys better get down to regular human level….coz with the massive un-employment and what labor wants to pay in order to compete globally…. doesn't come close to covering what they want to mandate. Forget where the cap and trade would take us.
When Obama was campaigning for President of the United States,his message was vote for me and I will take money from someone else and give it to you………Of course there is a large group of people that will always be eager for this to happen since they dont pay taxes but I think there is another group of people being created who thought they were going to be the ones who were going to be given free stuff and now their eyes are being opened to the reality that they will be the givers…..We can only hope that enough people figure this out before the 2010 elections.
I heard a caller (sounded ignorant ) that was mad about just such a thing. Imagine she weren't getting nothin' and and them banks, them banks got money. Where's hers?
I lived in Vermont which borders the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts. Their state police were refered to as "Jackbooted Thugs". It's not good to model the U.S. after Massachusetts. Fines for not having health insurance? They also want us to pay income tax on our benefits from our employers and from the looks of things they have settled on amounts which will be staggering. Over $12,000 for a family and $4,000 for an idividual. Anybody do the math yet on that one? Lovely little pot we're in. They aren't "frog boiling" anymore, just throwing us into the boiling water all at once. People are noticing now and will take action I'm sure. Looks like they won't have enough jails to hold all the people who can't afford this. They've taken away our means of making money and now they will tax us into prison. Nice. My mom's family came from Great Britain as indentured servants, fought for independence and became free here. Looks like we've come full circle. We'll see what we still have in us soon.
mpg8, it looks like B.O.&Co., Barney&Friends, and Pelosi's People of California, are going to impose their own form of Government on the American people, whether we can pay for it of not!! They are not looking ahead, they can't see past their collective noses! Hurry up and get it done, gotta act now, it's an emergency!! We'll work the details out later, we have to fix Bush's mess he left us, all of his failed policies!! My dad's people came here from England in the late 1600's to escape King George the III and his tyranny. It's a shame to see we have, as you said, come full circle!
Is this going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Is this the modern day tea tax? I don't see how this isn't going to fire up some armed revolt.
When is the rest of the country going to wake up. It ain't about helping people out, it's about the money….nothing more, nothing less. It's good that America has already been distracted about cap and trade. What ever happened about Pelosi calling the CIA liars? What happened to Feinstein and her shady dealings? You see, there is sooo much out there to talk about, that no one can keep their eye on the ball.
The states need to have a Constitutional Convention, or we will not have a country left when mid term elections come up. Fox is still talking about MJ.
I'm getting tired of hearing about MJ actually and so are a lot of others around me, enough. It's very hard to keep an eye on the ball like you said, that damn ball is moving to fast and the government is kicking too hard off the walls.
People are really getting sick of the media too, I say we over throw the media and get their sorry butts out of there, we need real news people, not these messiah worshipping people.
IS HE STILL DEAD ????
Welcome Comrades…if this bill passes we will now be part of "The Peoples So*cia*list Republik of Amerika" where we put the U in Gulag. Get your shovels ready!
ALL BOW DOWN TO OUR GALORIOUS LEADER.we are so screwed……….
I think it's more like ALL BEND OVER FOR OUR GLORIOUS LEADER.
Just another smoke screen on how the cost will be paid. If people are going to be fined and they are going to have to pay for it in there taxes then I believe that a lot of people will begrudgedly get the coverage which will lower there estimated input to the system from this fine. Also with more people having it they will say to themselves, why not use it since I have to pay for it, so again costs will go up and they will have to find more ways to suck the money out of us
I'm just waiting to see how much we will be fined for not going to the doctor for an annual preventative checkup.
Or if they question or won't do exactly what the Dr. says. There's alot out there that I question and won't do because the risks are too great. I know parents who questioned treatments for their children through medicade and they would be charged with neglect if they didn't do what they were told…..and many times the Dr. was wrong. They aren't perfect and we all aren't drones who function exactly the same.
They need all the help they can get and by half-heartedly stealing a tiny piece of what Romney signed they think they can associate republicans to this bill. They are getting VERY desperate and will try anything to save this unfundable spending.
If they encouraged more doctors and put other countries on notice for their price fixing of drugs at our expense instead of this… No, they have no business sense what so ever and are blinded by their ideologies of socialist origins, they can call it what they want, it's socialism.
They can't get what they want in an amendment to the constitution so they legislate it and tie it up in court hoping they get liberal activist judges for those cases.
Another freedom taken away. We have the right of self determation. Gone now. Pretty soon all our freedoms will be gone. I have emailed both of our senators and reminded them that WE THE PEOPLE elect them to office and if they voted for the cao and tax or the health care they could count on me for 2 thinges- I will not vote for they and I would do everything to defeat them. Both of them are as arrogant as the president so I expect they will vote yes on both and I will carry out my threat. I live in NY and Gillibrand took Clintons place. She is up for election 2010 and we have a fairly good chance of defeating her. Chucles however will be more difficult as everyone will forget what he has done. It's worth a chance I guess.
So if you elect not to get health care coverage, not only are you payning for it in your taxes (and for the dead beats that don't work), you will also get fined on top of that. Sounds like double jepordy to me
It is real scary to see our freedom slip sliding away.
I am surprised that BHO has not come out with a, "one world health plan" that you can go anywhere in the world and be provided health care under NWI (new world insurance) But I should probably not speak to loud since that is probably next on his agenda of saving the world.
We already do send money to other countries to help fund their care. Unfortunatly, our coffers are bare.
When I heard about this in the morning today, I got very angry. Not that I don't have health insurance, but I thought we live in America. Now, they passed this provision while we weren't looking last night. I really hate how bills or provisions are being passed these days. Why should an American or company be fined for a choice that fits their needs at this time? This is way too much for this to pass for Americans. This is also insane. It steps all over the Constitution, which I remember that Congress is supposed to abide by.
USA will fail just like California. These crooks donot give a sh t about the working man or woman. Greed and total domanice of the people.
Here is how I am reading this. "Either you spend your money with us, or we will fine you." Maybe I miss read it though.
Here in Illinois our toll system needed an update a few years ago. Then governor Blogo, and his croanies, passed into law a system called IPASS. If you chose not to use IPASS, and preferred cash, it would cost you DOUBLE! Only in Illinois is using cash frowned on. Now, the sheeple have elected someone who voted in favor if IPASS. Pony up to the bar my fellow countrymen, but do not forget your wallet……OH, and if your using cash, bring twice as much!
Didn't Daley "lease" alot of them out already? Then you can't forget the wonders of the IPASS fiasco, where people were fined insane amounts of money for blowing the toll area, but it was for cars they had already sold, license plates that were stolen and reported, and no where to go to get help.
Didn't Daley "lease" alot of them out already? Like for 90 years or something…Then you can't forget the wonders of the IPASS fiasco, where people were fined insane amounts of money for blowing the toll area, but it was for cars they had already sold, license plates that were stolen and reported, and no where to go to get help.
I spent part of my childhood in the Chicago area. Just the other day I was trying to explain toll roads to my 11 yr old.
Mom, you mean you have to PAY to drive on the roads there. Yep . . .
Oh, dear merciful God, please do not let the Obama staff read your post. They may come up with a plan for a national toll system which would include the very streets we live on…..
We'll need more than that at the rate the gov. is printing money. It'll probably end taking a wheelbarrow full of money to get a loaf of bread……. and I'm about half serious.
It will be imported bread at that since Obama will be forcing our farmers to grow some "green" crop that can be put in our gas tanks and magically fix a man-made global warming mess that doesn't actually exist instead of growing wheat and corn for food. We can all starve, our food, like our energy, will all be imported even though we have more resources in our country than anyone else to become completely self sufficient, but at least we can feel good about fixing a non-existent climate problem as we die.
It doesn't cost double. It costs the same amount—at least on the Borman-Tristate. Where are you talking about? What I hated is when they put the ipass lanes all on the left and then shifted them to all on the right. Traffic going every which way—and those semi-trailers were the worst!
Here is how I am reading this. "Either you spend your money with us, or we will fine you." Maybe I miss read it though.
Here in Illinois our tool system needed an update a few years ago. Then governor Blogo, and his croanies, passed into law a system called IPASS. If you chose not to use IPASS, and preferred cash, it would cost you DOUBLE! Only in Illinois is using cash frowned on. Now, the sheeple have elected someone who voted in favor if IPASS. Pony up to the bar my fellow countrymen, but do not forget your wallet……OH, and if your using cash, bring twice as much!
What a bunch of sicko's people, I can't believe this is happening, May God Help Us All! We're on a frieght train going a trillion miles per our, I'm starting to believe this is another 9/11 within the system and no one is blinking an eye, if you think an inside job would never happen, I'm sure everyone would have thought that the day before 9/11 too. Everyone I know is calling this an inside 9/11, pethedic, where is Obama birth certificate already!!!
Wake up people,
They want it to be like our car insurance????
Does that mean the responsible people will be required to purchase UN INSURED sheeple insurance, and UNDERINSURED sheeple insurance for all those who fail to maintain their federally mandated insurance… Just like in the real world of car insurance?
That's why mine went up. Not because of anything I did….but to cover the illegal drivers. What's the point then?
Just one more way to redistribute wealth. Just one more way to control us. Just one more way to demoralize us. Just one more way to force us to revolt.
If I heard correctly this morning, if you don't get the health care, the 1000.00 fine is coming out of your taxes, so we may not even have a choice. Maybe I am incorrect, but I thought that is what I heard. Isn't this unconstitutional????
Yes, it is.
OK, his goal is:
1. to get ALL americans health care … his systems does not do that. though it does make sure that a lot of illegals do. I have a feeling that by middle class he means "not me or you".
2. to collect enough revenue to buffer the entire system …. his system does not do that. thoguh it does set up a nice undefined slush fund of revenue, for those that missed who would actually be collecting this.
3. compete with private healthcare to "keep them honest". this in no way does that. forcing bad investment, unlevel expenses, and unparaleel overhead. this is not competing.
Since it meets none of the goals set forth, it's time to go back to the drawing board .. NOT VOTE ON IT!!! There is nothing to vote on. THe bill DOES NOT MEET THE GOALS!!!
THese are man-childern without a clue of how realty works. THey don't even understand what red ink is in a budget book or have the hint that finanacially, we are broke.
Since prices are going to go up on everything especially after they pass some form of Cap & Trade and inflation kicks in; and after people are forced to give time to "Green" Community service, and after income tax and Social Security taxes go up; I just don't see people being able to afford forced Healthcare. Especially since the real effects of forced healthcare will really mean higher premiums eventually, because it will not only cause insurance to go up(like when they made auto insurance mandatory), but it will lower competition as government corners the market. If all the above happens, and it will, for me it will be more practical to be fined over and over again until they make me lose my job and then they can pay for me.
The bottom line to all of this…
If we find out WHO is writing these bills that the LAWMAKERS DON'T EVEN READ, we will find out
WHO IS REALLY RUNNING THE SHOW!!!!!
WHO is coming up with all of this crap that is STEALING OUR LIBERTY AND SHREDDING OUR
CONSTITUTION???!!!!!
In Animal Farm it was the pigs that started to rewrite the 'all animals are created equal but some animals are more equal.' I watch and find it funny how in A F the pigs started to look like the farmer they over threw. In our situation the people are starting to look like the pigs. Barney Frank looks like he just stepped away from the slop. So fat he cant even button his shirt. 'Little piggies clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon' Gosh this is starting to sound like a personal attack on old B. Fer Maybe not the most constructive way for me to vent but….
A very good point… Who is actually writing this crap ?
That ismy major concern, our politicians are passing bills and have no idea what they are passing. If I was a congressman I would NOT pass anything good or bad if I or my staff were not given the time to go over it and especially if we couldnt even get the complete bill.
That is my major concern, our politicians are passing bills and have no idea what they are passing. If I was a congressman I would NOT pass anything good or bad if I or my staff were not given the time to go over it and especially if we couldnt even get the complete bill.
I won't buy the insurance, period. As far as my impending "fine" of a thousand smackeroos, they can take it out of the TARP profits which are happening now only Barney Frank wants to take those profits and put it into low-income condo housing for poor people. It's supposed to go into the General Fund; he wants to spend it. Guess I'll qualify for one of those condos since I am now a poor person and can't afford Socialized Medicine. Isn't this illegal to fine people for deciding they don't want a particular benefit? It is a benefit, right? When and why did it become mandatory? Imposing their will on free people isn't legal, is it?
How far behind can "Loyalty Oaths" on penalty of imprisionment be?
What happened to the free country we had, where we had choices, and we were happy. Now we get fined if we don't want an inferior health system, and the people that "didn't" have healthcare, will get it free. Of course, that would be on the taxpayers dime, you know, the taxpaying 50% of the population.
I lived in a socialist country for one year, 1985. Went there as engineering consultant for a privately owned manufacturing company for a mutually agreed to salary. The government there had unbelievable (well at the time) control over private commerce. Here are a few things I recall about that experience:
1) Free health care
2) $5 prescriptions – go to the druggist and get your prescribed medication and pay $5 no matter what
3) 12 paid holidays per year for everyone (It was the law)
4) 4 weeks paid vacation for everyone (It was the law)
5) Extra 17% pay (Loading, I think it was called) with your 4 weeks vacation pay so you could go on holidays
6) After being there or about 6 weeks, I got a 6% pay raise. Everyone got one. Government said so.
7) Any hours worked outside the 8 to 5 period were overtime to be paid at 150% rate (time and a half). Winn-Dixie, K-Mart, the Mall, all closed at 5:00 pm. Did not open on Saturday or Sunday. Had late night shopping on Thursday, think the overtime deal was lifted for Thursday. It was like Friday after Thanksgiving EVERY Thursday night.
Went to a public hospital once for stitches, SCARY place and people.
9) Nurses went on strike. One of their union meetings was shown on the news. Remember Hell's Angels movies from the sixties? Scary, grungy looking bunch. These were the NURSES.
10) TAXES………Income tax rate: $0 to $5000 earned – no tax, $5000 to $17,000 earned – 30% tax rate, $17,000 to $29,000 earned – 46% tax rate, income above $29,000 taxed at 60%.
IS THIS WHERE WE WANT TO BE???????
What happened to this country you visited in 1985????
This country is still there, still dependent on the strength of the US, still very appreciative of the strength and world leader position of the US. One of our reliable allies and friends. Sits adjacent the Great Barrier Reef.
Do not know if their tax structure is still as it was when I was there but I'm just saying, I would hate to, yet think I am about to, see our tax burden reach the level that was in Aussieland in '85.
Thanks for the perspective. More Americans need to read/hear this!
We don't but Obama does.
This is totally nuts! This just reinforces my belief that our dictator has had the plan to destroy America from the beginning. Has anyone checked to see what ties Obama has to terrorist groups? It seems he is working for them and not for America.
Dear Lord in heaven, i hope this fails. A little off topic, but if things like this keep happening, more people are gonna get mad and protest, call, etc. If peaceful measures fail, where will we have to turn to keep the Messiah and his pals from taking over our lives and stealing our freedoms and even our money?
I think we are seeing desparation on the part of this so-called president-I'M BEGINNING TO BELIEVE WE NEED TO ADDRESS HIM AS CZAR! Seems much more appropriate! He is certainly acting more like a Dictator then President!
I dunno, maybe his new buddy Chavez, is acting in a Czar capacity!
Seriously though, this is insanity. Even if this passed, how are they going to collect 1K$ from somebody who can't afford HC to begin with?
Maybe the trip to Russia is a clandestine visit to get pointers from Putin&Co. ??? Just a thought!!
Maybe the trip to Russia is a clandestine visit, to get pointers from Putin&Co. ??? Just a thought!!
I think we are seeing desparation on the part of this so-called president-I'M BEGINNING TO BELIEVE WE NEED TO ADDRESS HIM AS CZAR! Seems much more appropriate! He is certainly acting more like a Dictator then President! Seems more like right out of Russia right now!
Secession is starting to sound better every passing day.
this is absolutely insane!!!
We the people who believe in our freedoms, which it seems like there's not that many of us left,need to grab the guns head for the mountains of west Virgina and hunker down and not participate with this madness anymore.
Hell if the Muslims can do it in the Adirondacks in NY state, why can't we have our own little compound,maybe they will leave us alone like they do them.
This just keeps getting better and better, we will be forced to buy their insurance even if we are of the age where they will not take care of us because the cost is not worth it, and I believe the age was around 55 and older.
How can any of this be legal , where are our congressmen/senators or anyone for that matter, oh that's right they are all taking bribes.
I will not participate,I don't care what they do,fine me all you want! I will have nothing left anyway by the time our government gets done taking most of it
Maybe instead of celebrating on the fourth of July we should all place our flags at half mass to mourn whats happening to this country.
We've already tried communal economics in our country, in fact it was the first thing we DID try in Jamestown before the Revolution was even fought.
Read about it in my blog: http://morgue-toetag.blogspot.com/2009/07/plato-j...
"Shared responsibility" is just another fancy way of rewarding failure and punishing success.
Exactly. Why bust your butt when you get the same for free? That was one thing my parents drilled in me….pride. My father always felt there was many more worse than him, and the idea of getting welfare was disgraceful to him. That was for the TRUELY needy. I remember when I really needed help, I was physically sick and ashamed that I had to go in ask for help. Of course, I was refused, I was 10 dollars off. Now the attitude is it's an entitlement. Why work when you can get for free. My daughter tried for a college grant. She qualified for it in every aspect, except she wasn't a minority. She had recent health problems and was told point blank, if she wasn't white and had a kid…..no problem. Otherwise, she qualified for help. It is rewarding failure and leaving people out who truely need just a tiny, temporary leg up.
Here's my health care plan. All the unisured in each town or county network together and sign up on a plan. Go to a few different health insurance companies to get the best deal. Remember Capitalism – competition. It will reduce the cost of co-pays and deductibles. Small business can network together and do the same thing. I don't know the actual count because they don't know, we'll say 40 millon minus 12 million illegals= 28 millon american citizens. Well if 28 millon more people sign up on a health plan, the less the out of pocket and the more you keep. Health insurance companies need to take you if you have a pre-existing health problem and there should be a cap that doesn't allow the insurance companies to raise co-pays & deductibles too frequently or too high. Done!
As for doctors malpractice insurance – if they don't get sued, their rates should come down. If they get sued more than once in say two years, theirs goes up. If they keep getting sued, then they should find a different career and the insurance company should drop them. Done, done and done.
It's all a scam! The progressive just want to have all control over the people! Let us not forget about the illegal immigrants. I haven't heard one word about them NOT being on this Gov't Health Plan. I guess they figure if they can SNEAK in a extra section for cap & trade at 3 a.m., they could sneak in a few millon illegals.They are just money hungry, power hungry and want all control! It has nothing to do with the well fair and health care of the American citizens. Absoluletly nothing!
Amen, well said and so true.
One question I have, from what I've heard….this health care plan doesn't cover much more than a 3rd of the people without insurance…..then of course we have LaRaza, demanding all illegals get covered….so there is going to be 2/3rd's left in limbo. Can the kids coz they have SCHIP, right? So what's left is single people without children, couples, and people too poor to afford insurance, but not poor enough to qualify for the freebies.
Zymogene – You are right on the first question. As far as 2/3 left in limbo, as of right now July 4th, your right. The kids, as far as I know will remian on SCHIP, unless they decide to change the plan for a family plan. I have heard anything on the yet. Single people w/o children, etc. that's about it. You understand the plan as I understand it. There are 40 million people w/o health insurance- 12 millon Illegal Immigrants – We actually have 28 millon American Citizens w/o heathcare. That 28 millon should be the only ones to be able to be on this plan, but it won't work that way. Besides, I any millons of others don't want our gov't to have this plan, for one it's way to expensive and sencond if everyone, business owners, etc. decided they want their employees to get on it, then there is no FREEDOM of choice and poor quality of services, etc.
No, they don't. The sole purpose is the destruction of our country. Don't be fooled into thinking they have our best interests at heart.
LaRaza has already demanded all illegals be covered as well.
Zymogene – I don't have time to research at this time, but can you please, send a link, so I can read the information on LaRaza! Thank you very much!
OK, his goal is:
1. to get ALL americans health care … his systems does not do that. though it does make sure that a lot of illegals do. I have a feeling that by middle class he means "not me or you".
2. to collect enough revenue to buffer the entire system …. his system does not do that. thoguh it does set up a nice undefined slush fund of revenue, for those that missed who would actually be collecting this.
BOHICA! The only answer the government has for any problem is tax, or in this case fine. If they want to fix healthcare, first off, crack down on illegals. Second, remove the "interstate" barriers to the health insurance companies, figure out a way for the companies to compete across state lines, have the regulations the same across state lines. Let the States work together, to work this out. Third, limit the Malpractice lawsuits (poor trial lawyers, isn't BH0 one those), this is one of the largest costs for medical profession. Most importantly, let the people decide what insurance or healthcare they want to have. It seems ironic that everytime they bring up anything that even comes close to needing a new tax, its for the kids, well there isn't a hospital or for tha tmatter a doctor that will refuse care, except for the fear of a Malpractice lawsuit. Keep the Government out of our lives.
Close, but their real answer is "control" not necessarily "tax".
Even if we did have a successful Tax Revolt, the Fed can still print, and the Gov can still borrow. This insanity will only stop when other countries stop buying our bonds and all of our industries collapse and move overseas in the wake of hyper inflation.
We need good men and women in power, those who believe in the greatness of America, the greatness of the American people. IF we can get this, then maybe, just maybe we can something this insanity.
AMEN, Old Marine, AMEN! My husband is a physician so I'm sure this is one issue on which I cannot be objective but your points are excellent. The system has problems but the federal government is NOT equipped to fix ANYTHING!
Some of the health care costs can actually be blamed on the people that have health care. As an example when I worked for Boeing I saw families take their kids to the doctor every time they had the sniffles or the emergency room for a minor cut or burn. I believe most comes from the malpractice insurance and the law suits. A friend of mine's wife worked as a nurse in critical care and her insurance was about a third of what she made!
Where exactly is the government going to get the names of the uninsured to fine them? I don't want the government to run the health care system, because at my age, I'm sure that some of the care I will eventualy need will not be cost effective and therefore denied
Where are they going to get the names? This isn't a trick question is it? Simple answer…..ACORN and the Cenus. Why do you think they want to ask all those questions. Frankly, the only questions I will answer is the essential ones that are required, I would advise everyone else to do the same, most of those questions are none of the governments business.
Some of the health care costs can actually be blamed on the people that have health care. As an example when I worked for Boeing I saw families take their kids to the doctor every time they had the sniffles or the emergency room for a minor cut or burn. I believe most though comes from the malpractice insurance and the law suits. A friend of mine's wife worked as a nurse in critical care and her insurance was about a third of what she made!
Where exactly is the government going to get the names of the uninsured to fine them? I don't want the government to run the health care system, because at my age, I'm sure that some of the care I will eventualy need will not be cost effective and therefore denied
There is a lot of truth here. Health care in the ER is health care at its most expensive. Yet, people don't have any problem running to the ER with any cold, sore throat, ache or pain and they get treatment. (I work in the health care industry.)
When European conservatives are cautioning the US against gov't involvement in health care, and some Canadian provinces are moving (slowly) toward private health insurance, the signal is clear. To all but BH0.
Read 'Liberty and Tyranny' – Mark Levin. It covers everything, including this health care mess. DeToqueville called it 'soft tyranny,' and we allow this, the tyranny will no longer be 'soft.'
You cannot legislate common sense. You cannot lead a mule to water and make him drink. And even if you build the biggest, fanciest, most comprehensive health care coverage in the universe, there will still be people who neglect their own health maintenance and good sense and expect others to 'fix it.'
Look at auto insurance. We are all supposed to carry liability insurance, right? But do you know how many people are running around with no coverage? And when they collide with someone else and stand before a judge, the judge waives the 'fines.'
It is all BS. Take care of yourself. Because no one else is going to do it for you!
There's also those, that no matter what, have genetic tendencies towards certain diseases. To where no matter how "good" they are, it still is an issue. Medicine is not a perfect science, it's the "practice" of medicine. They are not GODS, there is no guarentee that if you are a perfect saint, that you will escape the natural order of dying. There's elements outside of our personal control that effect us as well. I know I drove myself crazy, wondering how can good people suffer so much when they did nothing wrong….and it looks like crooked and dead beats have it all. Life ain't fair. You just do the best with the cards delt. I have made bad health decisions….I smoke. I make no excuses and expect no-one to save me. I ask to just not die in agonzing pain.
And I respect your right to be you and make yourself happy. But do be honest with yourself and remember that your own personal behavior and attitude probably figure into your general health more than you would ever think.
Then there are people like me. I don't like doctors and I can't stand lawyers. You go to a doctor and the first thing he ask you is what's wrong with you, Duh that's what I came to him for. I know this isn't funny but I could not resist it. Nancy you called it right no matter how many are forced to have insurance there will always be those that are riding on someone elses nickle. We are all disgusted with this government and I pray we can get through this without too much damage but it doesn't look good. I hope to see you all at the TEA PARTY in Birminham. God Bless you all and have a great 4th.
You won't see me in Birmingham…..and it looks like some rain on our parade tomorrow in Hoosierland. I say the best policy is to thine own self be true—about health care, jobs, and even politics. Do what is right, not what is popular. And don't be afraid to do a little good ol' fashioned suffering in your life time. It builds character, you know.
The problem is that he doesn't want us to take care of ourselves. He wants to make us all dependent on government handouts. That way, he has total control of peoples lives, rights and liberties.
And I still don't get where he thinks he can 'contain the rising cost of health care' by adding more patients to the system. Simple economics teaches us that supply + demand = cost. He is just trying to buy votes. Cheap politician's trick!
That is what the goverment wants to do so that it shifts "responsibility" from individuals to government. We are responsible for our own actions, period.
That is right. To thine own self be true and rely on no one.
I was listening to Mark Levin tonight and heard about the following:
John Goodman, President of the National Security for Policy Analysis. Sign their petition against government take-over of healthcare at http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/.
We've signed it, hope you do too!
Hobbes, I signed the petition. Not sure it will do any good. I've signed so many petitions it isn't funny.
skt,
I know how you feel. I have too, but, I'm willing to give anything a shot and if others join, who knows it might work. I've got to keep my faith. Thanks for trying too!
skt,
I know how you feel. I have too, but, I'm willing to give anything a shot and if others join, who knows it might work. I've got to keep my faith. Thanks for trying too!
I signed it too. And can't resist a chance to plug Levin's book "Liberty and "Tyranny, A Conservative Manifesto" as it is a MUST READ!
Jerseygal,
You've got that right! A definite read!
I signed it. Like everyone eles I have signed so many and will sign many more.
Me too,I have signed it and many others too.
add me to the list of already signed
Thanks for the link
Done and Done!
I hate to say this, but in all honesty, Obama and his cronies wouldn't even bother looking at it before it ends up in the shredder.
They just don't care.
Now I know what the Jews in 1930's Europe must've felt like. The persecution towards Conservatives is getting out of control.
Count me in on the signing.
I signed it
Guys, think about it. We might be able to finance this whole health care gig if we just fine all the illegal immigrants $1000 each.
Why didn't we think about this?
http://www.whywevoted.com
! Good post, and thanks for your service to our country! Fine and deport.
Fine illegals? They will be exempt just like Government Motors' health care benefits, so said Kathleen Sebelius. So unions and illegals and poor people get theirs for free; the middle class gets hit again.
That is a fantastic idea. But it's hard to collect on a moving target.
Great point Gregory!! LOL
This is very confusing, unless you are Obama. So health care is another way for him to control the world and the universe and to tax us and has nothing to do with the government being nice. Hmmm. That seemed to have been missing from his campaign speech. Of course much of Obama the socialist could be seen from George Orwell's book on Communism long ago called Animal Farm. In it he said, in socialism, everyone is equal, it is just that some are more equal than others. Well that explains Obama and the Congress. And then Orwell in one of his books explained the term "doublespeak". Doublespeak is how Obama can tell us everything will be great if we vote for him, but what he really means is dictatorship and power seizure by him and high taxes and lowly serfdom for us.
Amen, RNHunter. When Obama's mouth is moving, he's lying.
Shared sacrifice = Mandated tyranny.
'nuff said.
$$ociaism is also called "Regulation"
So, let me get this right…
I have to PAY for a service that I'm NOT using??
Now, if you want to charge me a premium should I actually need something from the health care system, that's one thing. But charging me for something that I am NOT using is crazy!!
That's how Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid work.
BUT with ss & medicare, I was promised to be able to use it when I got to the right age
This is the thing BH0 forgets, not all people want health care.
Not everyone wants Social Security either. What's $400 a month going to do? I'm sure that I can invest my money much better than the government, and retire a millionaire with an extra $400 a month to add to a mutual fund which averages about 12% over the long term.
However, instead of that, I'm forced to pay into the ponzi-shceme of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and soon, Obamacare.
look on the bright side…you can go out and have that abortion now…..you might as well get your money's worth.
The only Abortion I want is—-from Obama
I'm positive that abortions are going to be the one proceedure that will be fully funded by Obamacare. Grandma won't be able to get her cancer treatment, but rest assured that ol' Stretch-mark Sally will be able to go to the abortion mill on the tax-payer's dime.
If you remember, Obama said " you don"t have to belong, you can keep your current plan if you choose".
Of course you can keep your own plan………but you will still pay for the Federal plan as well. You will be TAXED. There is no other way for him to collect the money needed to support this daydream of his. He would love it if you kept your plan. You would double pay and you would be paying for a service that you were not using.
It would be like paying into Social Security knowing you would never draw a cent.
Exactly.
I've been saying that since day one. As for SS, I couldn't get a cent anyway. Ohio, if you are getting a state pension, doesn't allow you to get SS too. they call it double dipping. Now, in fact, you could draw your SS but they would deduct the amount from the state pension you get. Bottom line………….no SS.
Obama has to get somebody to pay for the slackers healthcare benefits Janice. Remember that those slackers vote Democrat/SociaIist and Obama knows that rich and middle class people, by in large, do not vote for him so he is perfectly fine with ticking you off and stealing your money so he can redistribute it to the welfare leftists that do vote for him. n the end he gets all the credit from them for magically providing what will be free healthcare for our countries leaches while the rest of us become poor to equal things out.
I agree OB. The problem is of course that after a few years, many of those who used to be middle-class taxpayers are now so ruined by high taxes that they are on the government dole. As the years go by, there are fewer and fewer "rich" to be taxed, and those who remain are taxed at ever-increasing rates.
The rich didn't get that way by being stupid. They will leave while they still can. And we will have a nation of moochers with their hands out for goodies, but totally unaccustomed to working for their own food/housing. This is not the sort of place in which I would want to live.
In fact, we are nearly there already. As each month passes under this administration, more and more people seem to be of a mind that society "owes" them something: a house, a job, a big screen TV, etc. There was a time — and not too long ago — when people were actually ASHAMED to be on the dole! Imagine that!
Go Gault….Withhold you taxes and make them place you in prison…Thats the only way that this crap is gonna stop if we cant get it throught the ballot box in time.
If healthcare passes were toast…We are then under full blown Marxism.
Hell I'm ready….I am fed up with this crap…I am ready to fill the concentration camp.
That poor bastard that has to guard me will regret the day he was born…
Stop Nationalized Healthcare!!!
Now ask yourself who are these people? Bet it is not you or me.
The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines. The fines would be collected through the income tax system
its people who already have the best insurance possible and we pay for it.
i firmly believe the solution to healthcare reform is through Health Savings Accounts… you could almost self insure yourself in a few years if used correctly….
don't rely on the government
don't make the insurance companies rich
**i do think the HealthCare reform bill will be passed, it will be the most complicated, most unread bill and will most likely be the "straw that broke the camels back" (so to say). BHO is hellbent on this.
Medicare would be nothing if private companies did not supplement what Madicare does not pay (which is alot). Medicare is broke, he should fix that first.
Don't forget, Obama thinks the US is a BAD country. As a BAD country, we have to make amends to the world by reducing our country to a 3rd world status. To help us become a 3rd world country, we are going to pay for the health care of EVERY SINGLE ILLEGAL ALIEN and HIS/HER EXTENDED FAMILY as they stumble across our border. Since the border is NOT closed, the illegals will pour into the US for their FREE medical care (Free for them, but backbreaking for us!). Then Obama will have a bigger support base and he'll be able to do whatever he wants to our Constitution WITHOUT any of us even mattering. The illegals will make sure he stays in power and we will work to support them. Lovely, eh??
they must be sitting around sweating bullets trying to think of ANYTHING they can which would help pay for this insanity!!
They'll just confiscate more of our hard-earned money, and continue to tax every consumer item they can think of.
Guess us Gals from Jersey think alike. They may try taxing us on our taxes.
your money
Actually I think they are rubbing their greedy hands with glee. They are moving fast because they see a tsunami approaching. Their only worry is that the do not get everything in place before the citizens realize (too late) that they now live in a comun-st country.
They can't pay for any of it, nor do they care!! They are taking us down from the inside. I don't know who "They" are either.
They are not worried about paying for it. The goal is the economic collapse of this nation as we know it. Once the economic collapse occurs, then martial law will step in. Then they will be able to really put the bullit to our heads.
Yet another example of why I'm really starting to despise those in Washington!! NO WAY IN HELL would I pay the fine!! I'd die first!! This is government out of control! STAND UP PEOPLE!! This is only going to get worse!!!!
Starting to? You been asleep? Just kidding.
I hope you have better luck at getting people to stand up and fight then I have, I feel that our cries for people to take action are falling on deaf ears, they would rather see America destroyed then get involved. Can you imigine if the Sons of Liberity had listened to the majority of the people in 1765, where America would be today. I'm sure they were told, "that it won't make a difference", "they won't listen" and "they have the power".
Sorry, Glenn… I love you DEARLY… But, if you are not going to support a bloody revolution…
the least you could do is get behind a TAX REVOLT!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know! I know! "Leave the muskets at home"…. BUT, YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING
ABOUT THE AK-47'S!!!
Please, Everyone! TURN THESE JULY 4TH TEA PARTIES INTO GETTING OUR FELLOW
AMERICANS ON BOARD FOR A TAX REVOLT!!!!!
I agree with you, ShiningCityGirl, that we need to turn the Tea Parties into a tax revolt. The tea parties should not look like a good time is being had by all…..we need to be MAD and we need to show our frustration and DISLIKE for our government. We may not have much more time to try to stop these criminals from taking our country away from us.
Before anyone starts advocating a bloody revolution, they better stop and think. Our Founders fought a revolution to bring us a new form of government. They knew the horrors of rebellion and it took them 8 years to come up with the Constitution that all 13 states could believe in and sign. Now, are we, as American's going to throw their blood sweat, and tears away, just because we have a leftist in the Palace. We HAVE TO stay within the law, we cannot become a banana republic. We cannot destroy this beacon of hope, by falling into the chaos of civil war. We have got to continue with the Grace of God, to pray that our elected officials in Congress wake up and stand up to BH0. We have to pray, that those that have the money and the connections and support freedom will come to our aid, but most of all, we must do it peacefully. Force must not be used except and the very last resort, we saw what happened in 1860-1865.
Before anyone starts advocating a bloody revolution, they better stop and think. Our Founders fought a revolution to bring us a new form of government. They knew the horrors of rebellion and it took them 8 years to come up with the Constitution that all 13 states could believe in and sign. Now, are we, as American's going to throw their blood, sweat, and tears away, just because we have a leftist in the Palace. We HAVE TO stay within the law, we cannot become a banana republic. We cannot destroy this beacon of hope, by falling into the chaos of civil war. We have got to continue with the Grace of God, to pray that our elected officials in Congress wake up and stand up to BH0. We have to pray, that those that have the money and the connections and support freedom will come to our aid, but most of all, we must do it peacefully. Force must not be used except and the very last resort, we saw what happened in 1860-1865.
Before anyone starts advocating a bloody revolution, they better stop and think. Our Founders fought a revolution to bring us a new form of government. They knew the horrors of rebellion and it took them 8 years to come up with the Constitution that all 13 states could believe in and sign. Now, are we, as American's going to throw their blood, sweat, and tears away, just because we have a leftist in the Palace. We HAVE TO stay within the law, we cannot become a banana republic. We cannot destroy this beacon of hope, by falling into the chaos of civil war. We have got to continue with the Grace of God, to pray that our elected officials in Congress wake up and stand up to BH0. We have to pray, that those that have the money and the connections and support freedom will come to our aid, but most of all, we must do it peacefully. We must continue to email, snail, call, fax and lets bring peacefull demenostrations into the mix. Force must not be used except and the very last resort, After all, we saw what happened in 1860-1865. Those who do not remember the past, tend to repeat it.
Sorry, Glenn… I love you DEARLY… But, if you are not going to support a bloody revolution…
the least you could do is get behind a TAX REVOLT!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know! I know! "Leave the muskets at home"…. BUT, YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING
ABOUT THE AK-47'S!!!
Please, Everyone! TURN THESE JULY 4TH TEA PARTIES INTO GETTING OUR FELLOW
AMERICANS ON BOARD FOR A TAX REVOLT!!!!!
I am not going to get health insurance and I will not pay the fines either.This is my choice and the end of the line if they pass this.I am sick of it and this is the last straw.THEY WILL NOT GET A PENNY FROM ME!
Just make sure you have nothing. LOL Or they'll take that.
They won't take anything from me while I'm alive.
Damn straight it's a matter of choice, freedom of choice.This time the are way over their constitutional bounds.
Then you'd better hope that you don't get a tax refund because that's how they will get the fines. Same old thing.they get the money, you get nothing but another intrusion into your private life.
According to the article, This penalty will be collected thru the IRS, aka 1040. More than likely, we will be given a tax credit with PROOF of insurance. No proof – No $1000 credit. Oh by the way, don't fret, they will raise our tax rates to cover this credit.
It goes without saying, the jellyfish of our society will not have to pay, according to this article.
Well if they do it that way, I could pay $1000 short in taxes or screw it and stop paying taxes altogether.It will probably be the latter though.If I am going to get in trouble, might as well go all the way.
Isn't the fact that we as taxpayers pay for all the uninsured that go to emergency rooms, mainly illegals, called shared responsibility. A bill we didn't offer to pay. I'm sick to death of this mans nature to give what everyone else has, yet doesn't attend church. He did tell us he attended the same church for 20 years didn't he. I won't say this how I'd like to, but this guy is dishonest.
Exactly! We already do pay to share the responsibility. Those that have insurance pay more. Those that pay cash, pay more in order to cover what the un-insured don't pay. We don't have roll-over fee's when we pay out more than what we use. We don't get credit when we don't need the service. I paid tons in insurance premiums and never got to use them. I quit getting insurance because I was throwing money out the window. Whenever I did need it, it was always something that wasn't covered.
Once they have our tax money then they consider it theirs and they feel that they are paying that bill. Isn't that a kicker. The fox is in charge of the hen house.
Maybe this is how you'd like to say it 1madmomma, he is a liar , a thief, a Marxist and a traitor. May as well state the obvious. ;o)
Let me help you out here, 1madmomma:
This guy is a no good, low life, egg suckin', chicken plucking, nose picking, butt scratchin', dog kickin', cat skinnin',
lyin', conivin', schemin', thievin', scum bag sob.
But he's "Cool" man.
I wonder…since this 'government thing' doesn't seem to be working…shouldn't we ask for our taxes back?? Look, if you think health care is expensive now…wait till its FREE.
Where do these people think they are getting the money for all of this? After Crap and trade how much money do they think taxpayers will be able to give to them? These people are insane and think this is a free for all. It is maddening, sickening and disgusting. I have worked all of my life and always had insurance. Now, I will have to pay for everyone else's insurance.
Yes, the homeless, crackheads, illegals, drifters, that work for cash, and don't pay taxes. etc. Reminds me of the "uninsured motorist" cost on my auto insurance. Why not have a law that requires everyone to have health insurance, and fine the ones that don't ???
I am totally disgusted by this whole thing. I worked 20 years to get free insurance and now, at the very minimum, my benefit will be taxed.
Does this bunch of idiots really think we are going to stand by and take this?
Of course! Americans ave been standng by and taking it for generations upon generations! Why would we stop now?
Of course! Isn't that what we have been doing? By the way, what are we going to do if we can't stop this from going through?
I'm sorry, nothing is free. Some one is paying and it may not always be fair. Even though you may have "free" insurance, part of that premium your employer is paying for you also goes for the uninsured. Just thought I'd let you know that. NOTHING is free.
Unless you're an illegal alien…..then you don't have to pay taxes and you will be getting free health care at taxpayers' expense.
It will be collected through the IRS. I assume there will be a $1000 tax credit if you have proof of insurance. No proof, no credit.
I wonder if this will reduce unearned income for those who have no insurance>>>>>It may but I bet these people's Cap & Trade direct deposit to their checking accounts (uh-oh, their going to have to open checking accounts) will be increased to compensate for their loss in purchasing power due the loss in unearned income. There is a certain very large group of freeloaders that Czar Obama is committed to redistribute to.
Unearned Income. Oh crap, I got myself started. I know several people that pay $1000 to $1200 per year in fed tax withholdings. Get a $5000 to $6500 tax refund. With the recent reduction in withholding amounts (tax cut ha-ha), some of these people's weekly withholding went to $0.00.
Hey,,,,Hey,,,NBC,,,,Mikey is dead, move on,,,,,He was a sick crackhead, died of an overdose of something, not at all this wonderfully great guy you portray. I got to turn off the TV.
Ray Charles barely got a mention on the evening news. I miss Ray, what talent.
Theres a petition to be signed against acorn and there intrusive census I believe the site is
http://www.michelebachmann.com/
According to the constitution only info required is a head count.I have read a copy of THE AMERICAN COMMIUNTY SURVEY and there are a lot of questions that are none of there business.I dont remember these questions on the 2000 census.
Exactly. But they blew the money and now want to kill us off as quickly as possible. Guarenteed, once they get this money, it won't be going to medical care either.
Silly rabbit, trix are for kids.
Well, from my stance, it was when they started the HMO's. Only certain Dr's had them and if that's what you and everyone in your area had, you could never get in to see them……so they would tell you to go the ER. But then they wouldn't cover it because it wasn't an emergency and you had to pay anyway. My ex works at a hospital and he uses the ER when he gets sick, because his choice of physcians he can go to, he can never get into see, and many times, if they're sick and just literally need the ability to take a couple of days off, they can't without a Dr's excuse.
As I was reading your comment to my wife, she said "yep, that's where we are headed"!! And I agree!!
As I was reading your comment to my wife, she said "yep, that's where we are headed"!! And I agree!!
I was thinking, with the tax structure, it may have collapsed, thus my interest in "what happened to it".
Old Marine don't forget to ban any and all lawyers from office. They seem to fix laws in their favor.
Thanks for the additional plug on the book! It should definitely be a must read for the RNC!
I think they already do that, but the taxes are so obscured that it is hard to trace! (I am not from Jersey, name honors our dairy cows!) I am originally from eastern PA, so I can relate!
We're close enough. My Aunt use to have 3 Jerseys, Holly, Pansy, & Daisy, I loved those old girls. We use to ride them to the back of the pasture. God that takes me back soooooooo many years. Thanks for reviving the memories.
Good idea, then maybe we can read and understand the bills.
You're welcome. Those are memories of a childhood when our country was a very different place. The kids of today have no idea what they are missing!
You may say, "that will never happen here."
Guess what, it has already happened here, in Massachusetts. In
Massuchusetts, Doctors are ranked in "Tiers" according to how well they
comply with government "guidelines." Those who conform are Tier 1 and are
heralded as the "best," (they do what they are told). Tier 2 are so-so.
They sorta comply. Tier 3 are the "lousy" Doctors who need "re-education"
because they do not conform to government guidelines. They are too
independent and need to be brought in line. See this article in the Wall
Street Journal. It is eye-opening. And it was put in place by a Republican,
Mitt Romney.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12391487862519918...
see next post
Even those on the left acknoweledge you are likely to lose your current health plan, or your Doctor,
Katie Couric noted “72 percent of Americans say they favor a government plan that would compete with private insurers,” but “at the same time, nearly two-thirds are concerned that would reduce the quality of their own health care. And some experts believe they're right to be worried.”
Sharyl Attkisson featured the Cato Institute's Michael Cannon, who explained: “Employer premiums will go up and employers might respond by dropping coverage entirely. So if you're one of those unfortunate workers, then it will be a government policy that ousted you from your health plan.” Attkisson added: “And if you do choose a public plan, you may want to keep your favorite doctors, but they may not want to keep you. Under government health care, they could be paid 20 to 30 percent less.”
http://www.mrc.org/biasalert/2009/20090624121020….
see next post
And "ration" care to the elderly….at first, then who's next?
Oh, that's easy. Our government has been aiming at this one for a long time—anyone who is 'non-productive' in other words, is not paying taxes. If you are a five year old with leukemia, too bad. If you are a 25 year old with leukemia and a job, they will pull out the stops to make certain you get care so you are back to work ASAP. OB/GYN care for those who have no more than two children, etc. In other words…..eugenics. And yes, nurses have figured prominently in those movements toward rationed and planned care. We cannot do anything without a nursing care plan….. and that care plan must specifiy the problem, the treatment, the rationale for treatment, the implmentation of the treatment and the outcome/evaluation of each and every possible health care condition a nurse can be involved in. For example some of you know that I recently came down with Shingles. My nursing care would include education, pain management, prevention of complications and spread of the underlying virus and self care assistance. I received very good care from a fellow nurse practitioner, but alas, I now have a condition called 'post-herpetic neuralgia' which is very painful. I am not able to do a full day of work, and because I am taking controlled substances, have to be mindful that I can easily become physically dependent as well as psychologically dependent on substances. I am not a pill taker, so I will be requesting a referral to a specialist. IN Obamacare, I will probably get a one time consult and the nurse practitioner/or family physician will have to manage me if I opt that I will not be employed while I battle this condition. Everything will come down to whether I am 'useful' to the state or a 'burden'. Those who are not contributing will not get cadillac care—and might not get care at all. Only those who are in their middle years and still are productive at a skill where the state profits, will extensive treatment be offered. That is the way managed care is to a degree now. All of us will be under the government planner's thumbs.
In other words, we are living in the next soviet bloc nation.
http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle...
It's frightening. I know my mom had insurance and was being treated for serious rheumatoid arthritis. She was managing it till she went on medicare. They wouldn't cover a blood test she was having done to keep the right levels there. It was done like 4 x's a year and they'd only cover it once a year. They were cutting more and more, because like it or not, it is a disease you never recover from. You just try and keep it from progressing. And well, guess she passed that point of being worth saving and they pretty much didn't care if she was comfortable or anything else. I know what I saw with her, and animals in a kennel got better treatment.
I've ever had shingles, but my parents both did……no picnic for sure….extreemly painful. I hope it gets better soon. My mom had it for a very long time, but my dad recovered in a few months.
I have also had RA since I was 6. I manage ok with it, but the older I get, the more my joints act up. But this shingles thing is totally unexpected and I am not doing well with it. I shudder to think what the next few years will bring. And I have seen the otherside of health care, too, as a nurse. I had a patient with sickle cell who never paid a dime and spent 90% of her time getting the royal treatment in a hospital. We would discharge her and she'd be back within 24 hours with a 'crisis' that was purely subjective. In the hospital, she had room and board, good food and 'maid service.' Why wouldn't folks take advantage of that kind of 'sick' role?
I have had it now going on a month. The FNP otld me that she thought I had PHN and I think I do, too. I am very depressed about it….. I had the break out across my chest and to my back on my left side. Now almost my entire midsection is numb, tingling, burning. I didn't even realize I was at risk for this, as I am still under 60. I think i got too upset by the current state of our country and lives. Everything I have worked for in my life is up for grabs. And it is really hard for a person to see their kids lose everything, too. I just wish Obama would act just once like he gave a care.
What I fail to understand is why progressives want this. Such a system cannot survive. With no income, and nearly everyone dependent upon the government for food, housing, etc. — how does such a nation survive? So even if I were a Progressive, I would not want to promote a system doomed to extinction…would you?
To me it is simple mathematics. When the moochers demand more than the workers can provide, the nation stops.
My mom had hers following a major nerve that effected her back and legs….it was like 2 years before it was over. My Dad's was on a facial nerve…..his was actually visable and he was in sever pain for about 6 mos. He ended up with some form of skin cancer, exactly along that nerve line. Got it fixed, but it was sure something new for me to watch.
Gosh, that is depressing news. Most of the patients I ever had who had shingles also had cancer and died from the cancer. Their pain was bad, but their cancer was bad. I never dreamed that this would hit me so hard.
Sounds more like gout than RA. I have multiple joints involved but no deformity yet. I am very stiff, though and each year more joints are affected. No one should ever be told to snap out of it. That is cruel. Just a hunch….has your mother been worked up for lupus?
And there you just laid out the entire leftist plan Janice, not just Obama's plan, he is just their current figure head, but so far he has been the most successful at implementing their plan. This goes back for many years when the libs took over the schools and taught people who lacked their own motivation to strive for success to consider themselves victims. They also told them that the deck was stacked against them, that rich people and corporations were not job creators, but thieves who prospered on the backs of the poor and working class. Once you get people to believe they are victims and that no matter how hard they try they will never succeed then you have successfully created a welfare class which not only becomes dependent, but actually has the audacity to demand handouts as if they are ENTITLED.
Glenn has brought this up, I think it was Clive & Piven who created the plan where you overwhelm the system with welfare types until they can collapse and overtake the country. We are at the tipping point now between the "haves" and the "I'm entitled's". The Dems trying to legalize illegal aliens is part of their plan to push it over the edge and many of Obama's current agenda items are designed to push more of our legal citizens into the welfare camp as well. I hate to say it, but I think Red State secession may turn out to be our only alternative soon because we have nowhere else to go since the rest of the world went sociaIist years ago.
I had known people with RA, but most had it since they were young. What I saw happen to my mom was frightening. They mis-diagnosed her for years and it wasn't till late in the game they found it. I have never seen anything like it. She went from normal and some aches and pains, to a totally deformed mess in no time. They had her in a temp. home, in which she physically could no longer hold a spoon or fork, was totally bed ridden and they would wheel the cart in…..just out of reach, and expect her to feed herself. They told me to tell her to "snap out of it" or she'd be on the street. She had uric acid deposits the size of half a golf ball in her finger joints. She had a ton of broken bones, not from abuse, but simply from being moved for dialysis, because they didn't have in house dialysis. They FORGOT her overnight at a dialysis clinic…..and this is our future? I cringe because supposidly they haven't determined if this is heridetary or not…..she didn't find out about it till she was just a tad older than me…..they said it was "stress" that brought hers on. Their home was destroyed by a massive tornado and my sister killed, within a short time span.
Good medicine involves both the doctor, the therapists/nurses and most importantly the patient. Sometimes no treatment is better than treatment. I fell a few years ago and broke my upper arm and tore up my rotator cuff. At first, I couldn't move my arm at all. I had physical therapy for 6 weeks and they taught me how to exercise it, but I was in a lot of pain. The orthopedic doctor told me I not only needed the shoulder repaired, I needed the joint replaced (I have arthritis). Since I am no spring chicken and not athletic, don't really need to have an arm working 100% I opted to wait. I kept working with the range of motion and strengthening it and I can (most days) lift 10 pounds over my head and use the arm without too much restriction. It only hurts me now when it rains and I am overtired. But that was my decision…..if I were younger, needed and used my arms a great deal, I would probably have had that surgery. Sometimes the patient know best. And those decisions should not include a government bureaucrat, necessarily–especially if no government funds are being used.
The temptation is great to over treat, especially the elderly. Some docs really go over-board with some patients and that leaves less money in the till for elderly patients who can get 'fixed' fairly easily.
My mom is nearly 80 and was complaining that she couldn't hear anymore. My sister wanted all of us kids to pitch in and buy her a set of hearing aides. I told my mom that she should get a good exam before she made up her mind, and consider some of the el cheapo models on the market today—those little amplifiers. She went into the audiologists office and he found the problem right away–both her ear canals were completely blocked with wax. They cleaned her ears and she was good to go. I was astounded that her family physician had not even bothered to look in her ears.
All it takes is a little common sense.