5/16/09: MSNBC REPORTS A SURPRISING RESULT WITH NEW PRO-LIFE MAJORITY IN USA
Posted by the912project on May 16, 2009 · 157 Comments
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157 Responses to “5/16/09: MSNBC REPORTS A SURPRISING RESULT WITH NEW PRO-LIFE MAJORITY IN USA”The Restoring Honor Rally August 28, 2010
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Many people who voted for Obama were unaware of his morbid attraction to funding and supporting late-term abortion, infanticide, partial-birth abortion – to the extent of killing the baby if born alive. He also has made it so healthcare workers will be forced to participate in abortion procedures, even if against their morals.
After reading a lot of articles on this, since it's in the spotlight with Notre Dame, a comment by a pro-life associate made a lot of sense.
She said that between Americans being educated this past week on Obama's stance, and the fact that a Catholic College is having him speak, it has helped boost the numbers of people who otherwise would have been more apt to have been pro-choice. I think the more a lot of Americans hear Obama is for it, is all the more reason for them to be against it now, more than ever in history. Maybe more people will think twice about using it for birth control and only use it in a case-by-case basis. Not to imply that it would ever be outlawed again, but that more women will find other options.
More info: bornalivetruth.org
hey whats this "Your comment must be approved by the site admins before it will appear publicly" stuff ? never happened to me before
as a male of the species. i cannot get pregnant ( obvious huh?? ) so the decision is moot to me almost…. i belive that no forced conception ( rape, incest, pedifile victims ) should be forced to contiue to term. as for if the woman doesnt want a child for personal reasons, well i would leave that up to her. as a single parrent if the father has any want of the child he should be able to restrict the abortion ( exception see above ) . on the note of the arguement of adoption…. well , how many children are in foster care or are wards of the state in the entirity of the united states?
ahhh i digress.. as an army veteran i practice cover and concealment ( cammo condoms dont leave post without'em ) thank you have a nice day
"It is a poverty that a child must die so that you may live as you choose".
Human life is precious and choosing to kill your baby must be dealt with realistically. One is choosing to kill their baby, not just going to have an outpatient surgical procedure. Personally, I don't think no one should have the legal right to kill their baby. Does anyone think the rising numbers of infanticide are a coincidence?
I was pressured to abort my baby because he had attached to a fibroid tumor, I would spontaneously miscarry, and we would both die because I would bleed out before they could save me. I was told I needed an emergency hysterectomy. My son is 20 years old now. Human life is precious.
This may seem dark, but it's only natural that eventually "Pro-Lifers" would overtake "Pro-Choicers", since only the former group actually adds to the population.
The left realizes that its losing potential liberal voters to abortion….Thats why they are eager to have as much immigration,legal or illegal in America as possible…..And keep these immigrants as dependent as possible on the government…..That way they dont have their life styles cramped by actually having to raise the children yet they still get their massive liberal turnout at the ballot box…..its the best of both worlds.
Everyone sins. All are forgiven, even women who have an abortion, who have faith. God knows we can't follow his laws. It isn't up to any human to grant or deny God's grace. Like the scripute says, our acquittal is not based on our good deeds; therefore, our dam.n.ation is not guaranteed by our sins. Heaven rejoices more at one sinners repentance than at 99 other people of good deeds. I do not know God's heart of hearts, how can any other human being claim to?
"For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it. But now God has shown us a different way to be right in His sight-not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the scriptures long ago. We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter sho we are or what we have done. For all have sinned; all have fallen short of God's glorious standard."
"Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. So we are made right by God through our faith, and not by obeying the law."
LOL. Only MSNBC would consider this a "surprising" result.
So there is an up side to having Nobama as President. It is making people really look at what they believe, rather than not paying attention. I don't think that the pro-life stats are as low as the polls indicate. I realised how stupid and unreliable polls were during the last presidential election when I was asked to say who I was going to vote for despite not being a citizen, nor being registered to vote, nor being a resident of the state in which the poll was taking place. Fear not people there is still more good out there than the main stream media is allowing itself to believe!
The issues of Pro-life vs Pro-choice is a tough issue for many americans. One needs to look at the inception of Planned Parenthood at it's core to get a better picture. The founder, Margret Sanger ,was a devote Nazi and wanted to eliminate the "Inferior" elements of society meaning, blacks, jews, people of color, etc. The process by which this was done was called "Eugenic's". Hitler was in favor of this, the extermination of the jews was top priority. This is the foundation of Planned Parenthood, history is there for us to examine, it takes courage to do so!!!
The way I see it, some say it's ok and some say it's not. I've seen reports that show very young people being lied to and manipulated into an abortion and I've heard of instatutions that make sure all parties are informed. Then there are people that think they would have to be raising someone elses child and they are not willing to do that. Look states rights is the only way to go and the people in that state make their own decisions. Why would you want Washington telling you how to live or die in your state. If they have their way you wont have to worry anymore because they will be telling you what to do. I believe that there is nothing more precious than a new born baby.
It is inspirational to hear this. The left wingers all out assault on decency appears to be going badly of late. It was encouraging to see what the left would consider the "bad" news reported on MSNBC of all places. Of course, I still think the numbers are skewed and that MANY more people do not support abortion. To further define the issue, I would guess that almost nobody supports partial birth abortion except our exalted leader and his handlers. 50 million and counting……..
Pastor Rick Warren: "At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?"
Barack Obama "…answering that question with specificity… uh… you know is, is… uh… above my pay grade."
~ Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008
On an unrelated note: I wonder what "the one" is doing behind the scenes while this issue is played out in the press?
There is NOTHING "Surprising" about this, I believe that most Americans have always been Pro-life. What I wonder now is how long till the republicans…who for some time have said "these pro-lifers are bringing down the party" will change their minds about this and get back to the REAL conservative voters. Go to a Pro choice rally some time, and tell them that YOU are pro choice……you Choose LIFE……and I'll betcha you get thrown out. I really do try to hear others world views on things, but when it comes to compromising what God tells me is right and wrong I cannot compromise !
Obama's infanticide stance is beyond inhumane.
http://www.bornalivetruth.org/obamarecord.php
As an Illinois State Senator, Barack Obama opposed the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act. The legislation defined any infant born alive as a "person” who deserves full legal protection.
The Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act was modeled after the federal version, with the identical definition of “born alive.” The World Health Organization created this definition in 1950. The United Nations adopted it in 1955.
Obama actively opposed the legislation in the Illinois State Senate. In 2001, he voted no in committee, spoke against it on the Senate floor, and voted present on the floor. In 2002, he voted no in committee, spoke against it on the Senate floor, and voted no on the floor. ** Obama was the sole senator to ever speak against it on the Senate floor. **
I don't think that anyone likes abortion. I'd bet that most pro-choice people see it as something difficult or painful. The same goes for people who support end-of-life decisions. They talk about letting people die with dignity, but they don't have to want to kill everyone to avoid hypocrisy.
Based on my experience, I'd bet that pro-choice people don't see the fetus as a person. It's probably that simple. They aren't convinced by religious or scientific arguments that an unborn baby is a person and deserves the same rights as you and me. They probably think that a fetus is in a similar category to an animal. Your argument pre-supposes that they think that the fetus is "alive," but I don't think they would agree with that.
And just to think, the Republican Party is trying to run away from the pro-life movement. Wouldn't it be nice to see a leader actually take a hard stance and stand for something.
The Government should stay away, far away from abortion and other personal issues. I can't think of one instance of where government interference in personal lives resolved issues in a favorable light. I personally don't believe in abortion , but that is my belief and I don't want to force my beliefs on others and I expect the same mutual respect from those who believe differently. The government should be a neutral party assisting those on both sides to come to a mutual agreement. From personal experience was I glad that abortion was legal, I have to say yes. I had a life threatening medical decision that was made for me by my husband. It was my life or our baby. Personally, I had no choice in the matter and I know full well what it feels like for others to make a decision for me. I am glad that my husband was in charge of the decision making and not a bunch of strangers.
Simple biology lesson. If there are any children in the room, they should leave now. The last I heard the male sperm cell is alive. The same is true of a female egg cell. Now if two living cells join, and divide, thus reproduce, the the "off spring" is alive, therefore it is life. Plain simple and God's way of reproducing the species, known as human beings. Also, has anyone taken a few minutes to look at the effect of the availability of abortion has had on the rise in STD's and the "cheapness" of human life in today's society. Maybe, the American people might be waking up to the fact that life is life and maybe a baby's life is worth more then nine months of discomfort, after all adoption is a better option. Of course BH0 has different ideas: "I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. "….Barack Obama
Thanks for posting that quote. BH0 is more concerned with the rights of affirmed ter ror ists who would slit our throats than he is with the innocent unborn. BH0 is willing to spend billions of dollars and inconvenience millions of people to save a 2 inch fish, yet supports letting a baby who survives a late-term abortion go without life-saving medical care.
This is our Dear Leader, the love of the world.
Values and morals, according to bho? That's rich.
\”I don't take a dime of their [lobbyist] money, and when I am president, they won't find a job in my White House.\”…Barack Obama, except if I (BH0) really need them and there isn't anyone else, then I'll give the special waivers.
This is what is being taught to our children. Remember the teacher caught on tape berating Christians. That kind of stuff goes on daily in just about every Junior to High School in the nation. Now, is it any wonder the democrats don't want us to home school our own children?
It's not just BHO, it's the whole culture of hate towards any faithful.
I understand what he's saying and I think its bad values. I was adopted. My biological mother wanted to go to college and she adopted me. My parents chose to let me know from a really young age. I suppose it was kinda hard to understand but I'm glad they told me at a young age. Also once I figured out what abortion was I realized how nice it is to be adopted. Now that I have some life experience and have been around all sorts of people from all walks of life I realize how much my biologicle mother loved me to put my needs above her own as she could not provide me with a loving home home that a child needs while she was getting her life together. I think it would have been easier to just abort me and go on, but she chose to stay pregnant for 9 months and give me up. Now that I've seen my wife pregnant I realize how hard that was. I've never met her but I would like to thank her one day.
Extremelywell said, God Bless and take care of your family.
I understand what he's saying and I think its bad values. I was adopted. My biological mother wanted to go to college and she adopted me out. My parents chose to let me know from a really young age. I suppose it was kinda hard to understand but I'm glad they told me at a young age. Also once I figured out what abortion was I realized how nice it is to be adopted. Now that I have some life experience and have been around all sorts of people from all walks of life I realize how much my biologicle mother loved me to put my needs above her own as she could not provide me with a loving home home that a child needs while she was getting her life together. I think it would have been easier to just abort me and go on, but she chose to stay pregnant for 9 months and give me up. Now that I've seen my wife pregnant I realize how hard that was. I've never met her but I would like to thank her one day.
He has no morals or values. If my daughter was in that position, she will have the child and I will urge her to put it up for adoption. Women have a right to do what they want with thier bodies but the child has a right to live. And I think from my own experience that a child is better off with a familly that can care for it properly. Why is that so hard??? Why do we take away consequences??? I think my daughter as a single teen mother would be better off adopting the child not only for her sake but for the sake of the child. Its so easy to go get an abortion, but its hard to have it and adopt it. As long as there are no consequences for these girls and boys actions the problem will not go away. We've taught condom use in school and that hasn't worked. Thats because there are no consequences. Oh and on top of that if you child chooses she can have an abortion without letting you know about it. I'm turning bald just thinking about it.
O.K OldMarine I often pose this question to get these topics some bite.The question is At what point does life become accessioned.Some say at the development of the brain some say at the point the soul enters the body.I think as a society this question should be settled.Now my belief has come along with age.But life begins at the beginning.
I agree, if 2 living cells unite, and form a third cell that cell is alive, it reacts to a stimulus, which I understand is what life is. Reaction to Stimulus. Is this not the test to determine if a person is \”brain\” dead. Reaction to Stimulus.
garywh wrote: "Some say at the development of the brain; some say at the point the soul enters the body"
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but at what point does the soul enter the body? For example — and I'm dead serious here, folks — I remember being born. Really! Is that just a memory of brain cells and chemical processes? Or is it something that my soul captured? I don't know the answer to that conundrum.
I do not want to murder a baby and never will agree with the liberals.I have two fine sons that have grown into good men with no police record.I raised them to respect others and they go to church.I have seven grandchildren that are my happiness.There is good that comes out of a marriage between a man and woman.I am glad the queers can not reproduce that is good and maybe aids will kill all of them.Money should be spent on children that have been abused not on the prevention of AIDS.If people had morals of any kind AIDS would stop spreading.If you look at Washington DC you see people in high places they were concieve when their parents were having sex for fun.I do not know anyone that planned on having those crooks.
Abortion is a social/moral issue like murder and armed robbery are social/moral issues. The unborn child is being killed. Profanity on TV is a social issue.
Taxation and redistribution are just as much "forcing your morals on someone else" (in this case helping the poor), as Liberals claim banning abortion is "forcing your morals on someone else" (in this case, not murdering a baby).
I am shocked the number of pro-life people is so low. I think the pollsters are still skewing the stats.
I am also shocked at the number of pro-life people who allow pro-death candidates get elected.
I think that the vast majority of the people would say they are pro-life if asked in a non threatening way, but they are not strong enough in their beliefs to do anything about it. That is why pro-death politicians still have jobs.
I agree. Why is it that the most pro-life states are the same ones who have the death penalty and are the most supportive of foreign adventurism like the war in Iraq or the idea of invading Iran? Life is precious; it shouldn't matter whether or not the person is born or unborn. We should do whatever we can to prevent the taking of life.
I agree the pro-life is probably higher then reported. Do you think the pro-choicers realize that abortions were first encouraged as a form of Eugenics to promote a superior race?
First of all, I am shocked that MSNBC would report the news without distorting the facts. Secondly, MSNBC printed the statement that this is the first time people have become PROLIFE majority in many years. Thirdly, MSNBC actually said this change of heart by the people is because of Obama, and Obama's radical picks on his cabinet are far right PRO-ABORTION proponents, that have citizens worried!
Maybe MSNBC, owned by General Electric, is trying a new approach, so they try not to go Bankrupt!
All this abortion crap is a cover up for something else they are trying to sneak by us .Abortion should be the last of our worries right now. Getting rid of Obama and his thugs should be our first priority.
Harry Reid is having a tough time for his re election this fall and we should concentrate of helping Nevada residents get rid of Harry Reid This would be the first step in taking back our country .We must get behind who ever is running against Dingy harry and and support them.We need to get list of the people we need to get voted out of washington and start grass roots efforts to rid our nation of these incompetent idiots .remember they are our emplyees they work for us .Its time we send a clear message so they know who is boss .
I tend to agree with you hdevo….when the smoke screen comes out in the form of a "hot button" issue that usually means something else is going on behind the scenes. We need to focus on one thing at a time and right now it should be getting our country back into the hands of representatives that will TRULY represent the constitution. Abortion rights is a hot button issue that many people feel strongly about, but it is NOT in the constitution. First we need to get back to basics, then we can debate the other issues that are important to us at a state and local level. Get the FEDS out of most of our business so we can back to being the great and proud country we once were!!
Life should always be a top priority because without it, there's no Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness.
There is a simple abortion test that I would like to hear some pro abortion people take – especially the outspoken spoiled people in Hollywood. That question would be – that if abortion is so great, would they agree themselves to be aborted? To have given up their life for the good of society? If they missed their big chance earlier, is death okay for them now? I realize that this sounds extreme, but if one does not wish this on themselves, is it ever okay to wish it on another – especially an innocent person? And I think this argument does work since I like many think there are some times abortions may be the only answer. Would I give up my life as a baby to save my Mother at the time of child birth? I might just do that. And that maybe is one of the cases when abortions are justified.
"Would you give up your life as a BABY to save your mother at the time of child birth"? That is such an insanely contrived question. You might just do that??? Idiot, if you are a baby you don't have the choice. Your stupidity is very "enlightening".
Abortion is NEVER the answer, since when is MURDER the answer to anything? The correct answer is NEVER! Why not the alternative option…..ADOPTION!…the other option. I, myself, am adopted, and I am very grateful to the people that raised me. Had I not been adopted I would have had an unhealthy life, the father was laid off his job at the time I was born, so they had to go on welfare to support the rest of the family, and there were already two other mouths to feed. I thank God that they did not abort me…thank you Jesus!
Can you just go up to a defenseless person and kill them? a unarmed friend just because they were there? Why punish the baby? punish the 2 irresponsible adults (or teenagers) that had the sex to begin with…not the baby.
I am pro-life and proud of it. If that puts me on Napolitano's watch list, I don't care. That business about a fetus being able or unable to survive outside the womb is nonsense. Would not the same apply to the diabetic who cannot survive without insulin? Is a person who cannot survive without a ventilator not a person? I am happy to hear that younger people are not in the majority favoring pro-life.
So, what is your point…are you Pro-Life, Pro-death, or Pro-homosexual? And all those 3000 babies that are being killed every day are not necessarily liberals, they may just turn on their parents and vote Pro-Life.
Makes you wonder Patty if an RNHunter is the same thing as a Night Stalker.
Hello acheyjake, Yes, it does make one wonder, doesn't it?
There are really two separate subjects here: abortion and the politics of abortion. As for the first and me, I am mostly pro life. I do believe though that there may be situations where the Mother’s life is in danger or other extreme cases such that it is dangerous to have a law on this. I think any law may cause a death rather than saving one. So I believe the Mother and her Doctor should decide, but God help us all to do the right thing. But 3000 abortions a day is something else than extreme medical cases, and that leads me to believe that something is very wrong here in our society. The second issue and the one I address is the political voting side of this. Pro-Abortion people are self limiting since there are few children that remain alive with them for them to tell them their views. It is easier to see that Pro Life people will have more children they can instill values in and vote pro life also some day.
What I would question here is, is there a life really in danger, or is it the doctors way of convincing the woman to get an abortion to help control the population?
This issue is quite the moral dilemma. Obviously there has to be strict guidlines, but…
On one hand, how do you tell a woman what to do with her body.
On the other hand, when you see that little face in the ultra-sound, how can you not consider it murder.
On one hand, I would be perfectly fine with letting the LlBERALS destroy their prodigy as we increase our numbers, but we have to take back control of the educational system and quit letting them indoctrinate our children.
On the other hand, it's still murder and they may be killing the the leader that will save us from all of this.
We've got to stop educating children on how to roll prophylactics onto cucumbers and start teaching morals and ethics. We have to lead our children by example, take them to church, raise them as Christians and hopefully they'll make the right decisions in life that avoids the need for abortion.
We also have to stop criticizing people like Sarah Palin who with her husband obviously did their best to raise their child — but after becoming a able to produce a child, she made her own decision despite her mother and father's guidance, love and teaching. You can't stop people when they are determined to be stupid or a danger to themselves.
747Whalediver
You are very correct as far as I'm concerned.
As far as SaraCuda, I'll vote for her in a heartbeat. I was so sad when Mccain threw he under the bus. The Libs are terrified of her.
If women's groups truly cared about women, they would give them more options than just abortion. There are ALWAYS at least 2 victims of an abortion, 1 dead (the BABY, I refuse to use the word fetus) and 1 often very scarred woman. Sometimes the suppressed guilt causes the woman to become more promiscuous, thus almost insuring future abortions. Often times the woman becomes an alcoholic or drug abuser. Many times, the woman becomes sterile because of damage to her reproductive organs. No one hardly ever mentions that there is 1 more victim…the father of the unborn child. I am glad to hear that some people are paying more attention to what abortion really means.
For help and healing to those who have had an abortion: http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org.
Abortion is murder. In the case of rape, I'm sorry — I just don't know how I'd deal with it if my wife were raped. I hope that I'd listen to everything my wife said (and perhaps didn't say). I would support her in whatever solution she arrived at, but then again, I just don't know. I hope that I would pray and ask my God for the wisdom of how to deal with that. But I just don't know.
I am not a counselor of any kind but if I can offer a suggestion this is what I would suggest, take a different step. There are other organizations that I'm positive could help you.
<a href=”http://www.birthright.org/” target=”_blank”>http://www.birthright.org/
I'll pray that you check this organization out. I am heartbroken to think you could go that other way…abortion. I went that way and have regretted it ever since. Had I known the actual procedure of abortion at that time I would not have gone through with it…that was 12 years ago this past February 25th. My son Sean Michael would've been 12 years old this past February………. Please choose Life.
You are exactly right. I should have included that in my post as well. Great to hear of all the super supportive men out there as well.
Also, if I may add to your http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org
there is also:
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org/
(Do not continue to live in the shame, fear or numbness – call our toll-free national hotline: 877 HOPE 4 ME (877-467-3463)
Yes and Thank you! They are a wonderful support group! Both of these groups need to be in the forefront because there are so many hurting people out there.
Why are those who proudly proclaim themselves to be "pro-choice", have difficulty considering themselves "pro-abortion? Why doesn't the phrase "a woman's right to choose", carry the same sense of empowerment as "a woman's right to terminate life"? The answers to my question relate to the fact that; Even the people who claim to be in favor of abortion are ashamed of the practice.
Why are those who proudly proclaim themselves to be "pro-choice", have difficulty considering themselves "pro-abortion? why doesn't the phrase "a woman's right to choose", carry the same sense of empowerment as "a woman's right to terminate life"? The answers to my question relate to the fact that; Even the people who claim to be in favor of abortion are ashamed of the practice.
You have said a mouthful and I had to read it several times to be sure I understood what you were saying but I agree with you totally and commend you for saying it the way you did. Thanks.
Why is it that a high percentage of people who consider themselves pro-choice are the first to protest capital punishment, i.e., the death penalty? I've never figured that one out, except to say that the new morality is held tightly by people who consider themselves to be highly "tolerant" — which I've learned is little more than a more vicious bigotry by any other name.
You've hit the hypocritical nail on the head. I have used this comparison to point out the discrepancies that exist with some liberals who share these opposing views of human rights. It's sad that most of them have not thoughtfully considered why they believe what they believe–that is until the basis of their argument has been completely destroyed.
Why are those who proudly proclaim themselves to be "pro-choice", have difficulty considering themselves "pro-abortion? why doesn't the phrase "a woman's right to choose", also carry the same sense of empowerment as "a woman's right to terminate life"? The answers to my question relate to the fact that; Even the people who claim to be in favor of abortion are ashamed of the practice.
I am the fourth and last child of a very troubled marriage. For me it comes down . thanks mom for not taking the easy way out. By the way I was the one how took care of her during her final years. There is such a thing a karma in this life.
Ditto. Or, +1.
Think of how many Einsteins, Beethovens, Mozarts, Thomas Jeffersons and van Goghs have been murdered in the clinics of abortionists. Think of how many people who, under God's plan, have had the answer to poverty, or the cure for cancer, or the solution for familial hatred and strife but have been flushed down the plumbing of abortion clinics. True, there have been potential Ted Bundys, Richard Specks or Jack the Rippers that hasve also gone down the drain literally. But the world needs complex people who have complex answers to the question of how are we going to survive nuclear war, terrorism and ourselves in the next century, and relying on doctors to resolve unwanted pregnancies is just idiotic.
I fear the day, standing before the Judgement Throne, when God roars "Who thought up the idea of live abortions?" News Alert: there will be only one exit.
The science is in the last throws of catching up to this topic…Pro Choice versus Pro Life…
Common sense is kicking in here and saying that this is becoming Pro Life versus Pro Death to potential Life VERY SOON. We have the technological ability to potentially grow an entire fetus (In Vetro) totally external to the woman's body. Ectogenesis research proves it. Further research will be the means to an end of this flagrant dis-regard to life when "choosing" abortion.
Everyone has their own cross to bare, but who is being more virtuous in doing so though. People who bare the full extent of that cross willingly? or People that bare little to no weight at all…by choice to not?
With regard to Life, it is so precious now days…Human life only has a 50/50 shot to get past the First trimester simply by the latest statistics. We don't teach our children properly how they should RESPECT life in general and the way it is created.
http://logisticsmonster.com/2009/05/16/hr-2401-no...
OT over a million people on the no fly list.
It is….and something I wrestled with. I became an older mom, quite un-expectedly because supposidly, I wasn't supposed to be able to get pregnant. They did the amnio tests and it said my daughter would have downs syndrome. I cried, I prayed, I thought of what her world would be like, what happens when I die? Like that home in Texas was a sure comfort for people dealing with this….anyway…..I made an appointment to have an abortion…..while I was waiting…..she dropped kicked me big time…..I wasn't that far along, but needless to say, she made her presence known and I didn't go through with it. She was born pre-mature, but NORMAL and fine and otherwise healthy. The tests were wrong. They did get the sex right but otherwise, the "professional" advice wasn't correct. I thank God daily I didn't go through with it…
Zymogene
My first born were twins, a boy and a girl. My son only lived 5 months and there was a period when I thought that if I knew it was going to happen, I would have wanted to prevent it. I used the excuse that I wouldn't have wanted him to suffer if I could have stopped it. The truth was I didn't want to suffer. My Ex and I both carried a recessive trait that had we not been together the doctors said would not have been a problem. I took me 6 years to convince my wife to try again. She was terrified and ready to abort at the drop of a hat. But the result of thet pregnancy was the most remarkable baby girl. She is 16 now (some days I want to pull her tongue out) and I thank God for her every day.
How many remarkable people have we lost to infanticide.
Zymogene and ABH: I have struggled with this issue, also. I had two miscarriages (in medical records, spontaneous abortions) before two miraculously healthy children. I have wondered if the outrageous abortion rates we hear include spontaneous abortions (miscarriages). Anyhow, When the doc said it was time for the amnio test, I declined. I would never be able to abort a child. God gives us free will to choose, and then eternal judgement of unrepented bad choices. I think I remember one of the commandments says something about not killing. The murder of an innocent, prior to or after birth, is a killing I can see no justification for. I am so thankful all turned out well for your families.
EVERY ONE OF US IS A GIFT FROM GOD. HE GAVE US HIS LAW ,THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. THOU SHALL NOT KILL COVERS ABORTION. PERIOD. THERE ARE NO EXCUSES. IT IS TIME WE PUT OUR GOD BACK INTO AMERICA. OUR FOUNDING FATHERS WITH ALL THEIR HOPES AND DREAMS FOR THE FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY PUT GOD BEFORE EVERYTHING . IT IS TIME NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE FOR OUR COUNTRY TO PUT HIM FIRST AND WE WILL HAVE THE AMERICA THAT WAS FOUNDED.
Yes, we are. Yes, He did. Yes, it does. But everyone has unalienable rights bestowed upon them by their creator. Who are you to take away something that God Himself has bestowed? God gave us all free will. It's not for me or you to subvert that. God doesn't even do it. If a woman decides to have an abortion, isn't that between her and God? That, ultimately, is who we all answer to. And, tell me, what sin can not be forgiven? Doesn't it say in the Bible that if you repent, you will be forgiven?
Romans 3:21-26 (to name just one of many)
I am so glad that you posted this. Why can't the government get this through their head??!! Don't know how familiar you are with the Bible, but if you read Micah 3:1-12 this tells you exactly where America is heading. It speaks of corruption and how God did not like it and He eventually destroyed Zion and this is what is going to happen to America if the government does not turn their beliefs back to the Bible instead of what man wants. It's very simple really, our ancestors got the word from God, lived the word, wrote it down, and now we have the Rule Book (Bible) to tell us what to do and what not to do. The government just doesn't want to see that though. The only way that they will see that abortion, corruption, greed, etc. are wrong is when it is to late, unfortunately. Just hope I am not around when it happens and I feel for our children and grandchildren when it does. Love your post and I agree with every word.
Putting abortion aside for a moment here: The country was not founded on the 10 commandments. It was founded on the constitution. The 10 commandments also says that there shall be no other gods and that people can't pray to other gods and that we should tear down others' altars. Does that mean that the founding fathers expected that all Americans would be Christians? It talks about slavery and punishing children for crimes of their parents. Is that part of our legal system? I support you putting god into your life, but let other Americans have the freedom to pursue their own conscience on religion.
Hi kayone. I just read your comment and it is a great one. I agree with you 100%. Every life is a gift from God. And every human being has something to offer to this world. We need to put God back into this great country. I have physical handicaps but I am so glad that I am here. We all have a mission to perform. I try hard not to feel sorry for myself. I just count my blessings that I am alive and happy at this time in my life. I love to read and to be able to be part of this very special group of people the 9-12 website. Be grateful and be happy. I loved your comment.
Exodus 20:13
“YOU SHALL NOT KILL.” The Hebrew word for “kill” is ratsach, but “murder” is a more accurate translation. This term means a willful, deliberate and malicious act, as opposed to an action resulting in accidental death. (God does not view accidental death between parties as murder )
Some abortions are done just before the birth of the child, in my book that is murder, a willful, deliberate and malicious act, God will judge, but we as a moral people must witness, and descent the actions who do this.
All it takes for evil to succeed, is for good people to do NOTHING.
i have long viewed abortion in different terms. i'm an adopted(as an infant) child.
not withstanding, from a more mundane and less dramatic perspective, except for artificial/in vitro insemination women seldom know the exact moment of conception. that is why the arbitrary trimester debate is just that. what if you're 14 weeks along?
next it seems to me that the main difference between a baby and "PRODUCTS OF CONCEPTION" is the the mom wants it or not. not whether this a baby or not. watch some anguished parents hang over a bassinet in a nicu over a baby born at less than 25 weeks . as opposed to some ditzy 16 yo who's just found out she's 5 months pregnant.
the morality is skewed. IT'S EITHER A BABY OR IT'S NOT.
AMEN TO THAT!!!
Here in Washington State abortion became legal in the early 70's I was pregnant with my third child, and not concerned with politics, had no idea that abortion was even legal. I went to a new Doctor as we had moved to a new area. The first question he asked was. "Do you want to have this baby?" I was floored. "What?" I asked. He repeated his question, and added. "You don't have to have this baby if you don't want too." and went on to tell me that I had the right now to abort if I wanted. Fortunately I was aware of the sanctity of all life and left the office immediately. This Doctor was advertising abortion, not providing a service I was shopping for. Abortion ends in death. Without life there is no liberty, or the pursuit of happiness.
Yes, not a surprise that most people would vote for pro life. Those were the people who were not aborted, and would object to being aborted. Liberals would die off quickly if not for Acorn who keeps votes high using dead people. Of 10,000 birth attempts per day in the US, about 3000 mostly by liberal families are aborted. So 3000 potential liberal voters die per day. Also a recent study by liberals showed that for gay families, they also do not by themselves produce very many liberal voters. Noting all of this, liberals have been considered an endangered species, and the US Post office was going to come out with a commemorative stamp on it. It reminds me of a license plate slogan I saw once – that said “thank you for not breeding”.
May I steal that slogan? That's great.
Thank you for a most-enlightening perspective!!
Not my slogan. Just something I saw years ago in Rockford Illinois that made an impression on me … "thank you for not breeding". yes, interesting slogan. From my end of course, you are welcome to it. If you wish to credit the source as a license plate in Rockford Illinois, that would be nice, but maybe not necessary. I did look in up in quotes on the internet, but found no author.
NEW GALLUP POLL!
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-...
Even though the headline put a smile on my face. The greater underlying issue remains the same America is still divided on this and most likely will remain so. Obviously, no mandate for either side.
I agree with you, Boopster. There is no mandate but certainly some improvement. At this point, it's probably the best we can expect. I must admit that I do believe in choice when it comes to rape or incest, even in those cases, I prefer adoption as the option that should be chosen. My three daughters were raised to know that in our family, adoption is the only choice.
O.K., it keeps showing there was a reply but no email no reply. So If you left a reply please do it again. Blame intense debate. I have done all I can. I will check later.
My problem with the abortion issue is it's a social & moral issue, not a political issue. When you give the government permission to control personnel choice issues. They are going to be more than happy to do that. It gives the government more power to control every aspect of your personnel life. The government needs to stay out of the issues of abortion and gay marriage!!! And the government needs stop to using tax dollars to perform abortions. It is more wasted spending by the government!!! Second of all why is this taking center stage? This country is in a middle of an economic meltdown. The abortion issue is being used to side track people off the issue of the economy and the trillions of dollars the government spending!
I think you are right about this being a social and moral issue and not a true political issue. I have felt for years that abortion should be an absolute last resort remedy to save the life of the mother and not a means of easy birth control. We have too many available means of birth control including abstinance to use abortion as a routine means of birth control. To bring the issue into the political arena means people are forced to pick winners and losers where otherwise the selection would probably be entirely different. The so called litmus tests for selection of justices, presidential candidates and other elected officials based on social and moral issues places government where it just should not be.
We are going to be faced in the future if it's OK to marry off an 8 year old. It's common practice in some countries and morally OK in some relegions….but here? In some cultures it's OK to rape children. We have to take a stance, or all hades is going to break loose. I WAS pro-choice because I firmly believed it was not my place to make that sort of decision for another person when they had to deal with it and not me. Meaning being raped and such. Not a regretful evening. As with everything, it has gone to extreems and the extreem is NOT what I advocated. How many babies are born and shaken to death because they cried. How many babies are drowned in the toliet because they wet their pants. How many handicapped are locked in closets and starved because the parents can't deal with it. How is that BETTER? Ya kid, you have the right to be born but no protection after that. That is the BIGGEST problem I have with the pro-lifers……where are you then?
If people stopped aborting we'd have more people to help pay-off this HUGE debt that Obama is causing.
Every issue right now is being used to side track people from the pending economic meltdown. If we stay distracted and frustrated enough, Congress can move forward with their wasteful spending legislation without us getting in the way. Except this time around, we're not buying it. America's moral or personal preferences have changed. So? That matters more than socialized medicine and impending massive inflation? And, to be quite honest, I don't always put a lot of stock in polls, Gallup or otherwise, given how flawed they are in nature.
I would not carry a product of rape to term, therefore I guess that makes me mildly pro-choice. But I think the old rule of first trimester is best. Ending a pregnancy for medical reasons is very, very difficult and many women who've been through something like that feel guilty forever. But I think 'medical necessity' has been stretched to the breaking point.
I think Barack Obama's stand on abortion is the most hypocritical ever. Of all people, he should know how much an unwanted child can become very much wanted eventually. A few more years later and I doubt Stanley Ann would have made the same choice with Barry.
I adore Sarah Palin and her firm stand. Her son is adorable and a very significant reminder of how precious life is. I believe in reproductive rights AND responsibility. And I am glad that some families opt for the hard road rather than the easy one.
I think most of us humans do not object to abortion if it is needed to save a life or if there were extreme circumstances. So, you are not unusual and many of us would back your stand. But at 3000 abortions per day, there is let me say, something odd there. I personally do not believe there should be an anti abortion law and it should be up to the lady and her doctor and their best judgment. However, as I baby sit my wonderful grand daughter I am concerned that maybe more could have chosen life.
I am glad that we pretty much agree. It seems like these issues stir up so much anger and resentment!
I did a clinical rotation in a Planned Parenthood office that saw things like 11 year olds who were pregnant. The nurses there did a great job of educating and explaining what needed to be done next—and in fact they really steered the young gals toward adoption rather than abortion. But that was 28 years ago. Now, I think, a lot has changed—anything goes. And some folks are so irresponsible that they won't use birth control but will opt for abortion instead because they won't take any personal responsibility at all. Even for using a condom or a pill. Our 'whatever scratches that itch' attitude toward sex and intimacy and family have driven the train toward so much abortion and heart ache. Young people don't realize that even a 'tiny' procedure like an abortion leaves physical and emotional scars that sometimes don't heal that well. I like the idea of making abortion 'rare' but safe.
Many young men and women refuse to allow children in their lives because they want to 'do their own thing' and avoid the 'mess' of having kids or have no confidence in their own abilities to parent or believe that the world is an essentially good place. Irresponsibility, doubt, self-absorption are what we need to be fighting along with the ever present promiscuity. And the issue should not be limited to females. Young men should be held very accountable for every pregnancy, even aborted ones.
Bad judgment is one thing, but repeatedly bad judgement is quite another, too. There comes a point of no return.
I got married at age 18 and I know what a hormone rage is like. Luckily for me, I married a peach of a guy and we married first and THEN had kids and used technology to limit our baby making abilities eventually. We had a great deal of passion and fun but we didn't become enslaved by that physical passion. Now that we are older, we know how over-rated sex really is. Neither of us want it or need it anymore and both of us are ok with that. With maturity, other things like companionship and friendship can emerge. And we do love each other dearly too. The younger folks and liberals don't seem to realize that! There is so much more to life than what goes on between the sheets every so often.
So killing an innocent child is OK? Excuse me…you are pro choice…nothing MILD about it. Either you believe in the sanctity of life or you dont. Its like being a little pregnant….can't be done.
All you are doing with your argument is allowing yourself to side with the abortionists…sorry Nancy I have to disagree with you here.
As a former Minister I counseled with many women who had once had an abortion. The trauma they suffer later in life is horrific mentally. They all wanted that child later in life.
I agree! It's not the unborn baby's fault who's the parents but if it's not for the parents than that particular baby would never be born. You may never know who that baby would become if you never let him/her have a chance at life. The thing that really gets me is that women use it as a type of birth control and some feel that it will be too much a burden on THEIR LIFE! People shouldn't let selfish motives determine another person's life. Everyone makes mistakes in life and we all have choices to make, lets pray to God that they make the right one.
In the case of RAPE? I don't think you could possibly ask a woman to go through with that! Of course, you are a man and quick to judge. Have you ever had morning sickness? Stretch marks? A C-section? Breast fed a baby at 2 a.m.? I don't think so.
What abortionists? You anti-abortion people think there is a whole line of them doing nothing but one abortion procedure after another, when in truth, they are (for the most part) OB-GYNS with a thriving baby delivery practice, too.
Didn't Jesus say all who are without sin may cast the first stone? I say judge not, lest ye be judged….. And how much counseling did you do the young male impregnators? Or teach young men how sex for just sex can destroy your body, your mind, and your spirit? That it is WRONG? If you counseled 'many women' who'd had abortions, maybe your job would have been easier to do a little counseling of the young men who didn't have to pay that price of making that decision. You should be fighting promiscuity and premarital sex as much or MORE than abortion!
And in reality, are you so sure that YOU are not pro-choice? If you have ever used any form of contraception other than rhythm or barrier, you probably aborted a very early pregnancy and didn't realize it. I believe in the Fruits of the Holy Spirit, and that last one is self control. If a person is using self-control, they might not need that abortion, right preacher? How about all the women who killed themselves or went nuts when having one child after another? I am the first of five children all born within 10 years . I saw my mother need shock therapy to get over her depression. She spent my teen years in a psych ward probably due to post-partum depression. She has only know begun to have some connection with most of her children. She doesn't even remember my growing up years. You see, shock treatments wipe out some memory. She doesn't REMEMBER her own kids. But men wouldn't know what that is about would they? It is easy for men to just jump on board that train and ride it to the end of the station.
And although you say you counseled many women after abortions and that they reported nothing but horrific mental suffering, I kinda doubt that they would really report joy and relief to you.
I have been a nurse for thirty years and only know a handful of women who opted to abort.The ones who chose to abort didn't dance for joy, but didn't grieve either. They were all young. And they certainly were not ready to have a family. They opted against adoption for their own reasons. And I hope that later in life, they were blessed with children to love and care for.
I have known a couple more who developed medical conditions that made abortion the only course of action. One was late term. The baby was born without a brain cerebrum and with severe spina bifida. The woman tried again with another grossly deformed child that was 'born.' The baby never really breathed. She said that she wished she'd aborted sooner, not gone through labor and delivery. She has had no subsequent pregnancies and mourned not only her mother this past mother's day, but the children that she will never hold. She named the 'born' child Michael.
I also had a sister in law who should not have ever had children at all. She is mentally incompetent–only got as far as 7th grade in school, never really cared for the 7 children she did have–never fed them, hardly ever touched them. Two died. One at age 11 from some mystery illness (flu? Reyes Syndrome? Meningitis?) and another from a cerebral aneurysm at age 17. These were all good kids, but they all suffered greatly as they grew up (the ones who lived). The grew up neglected, unloved, poorly educated, a product of the nanny state while their parents had even more children. Ideally, the parents should have kept their bodies under some control and practiced some sort of contraception. These people probably would not have aborted because they'd be too dumb or too lazy to get an abortion. They just popped out more kids for the government to raise.The reason my sister in law and brother in law had so many children was to 'take care of them when they got old.' They didn't deserve one of their children. And I am happy to say that the kids have all moved away from the nest—as far away as possible.I can't say as I blame them any. And none has had more than three kids. I am proud of them. They learned by their own experience how NOT to parent.
Just curious… Did you ever counsel a woman who wasn't horrifically traumatized by having an abortion?
Guess that is where I was, mildly, pro-choice. I always heard, freedom and control and power has responsibility. If I can't take 100% responsibility for anothers decisions, then it's not my right to tell them what to do. I 100% agree with the first trimester ruling. I do not and never agreed with the late term abortion things. In that same breath, I can say, call me a cold hearted B, but it's not my job to feed and clothe and take care of your child, just because you can have them and can't control yourself. I can deal with job loss, hard times, a husbands death……but not when I'm expected to fund them as long as you can breed them. And fund them better than my own get. Some sense of self responsibility has to come into play.
Amen! Some sense!
I said earlier, I was told my youngest daughter was supposed to be downs syndrome. My Dr. didn't recommend abortion, though others did. He told me to use the time to plan for it. And I did, I was expecting a downs baby….prepared and ready and she wasn't. A gift, I guess, but I never for once thought that responsibility was tax payers job, or that anyone else was responsible for anything. I have a downs-syndrome cousin…..she's like 67 yrs. old now. Older than me and going strong. Her childhood was a living nightmare, she endured rape from her father and a host of awful things. But she is great now, and could, in a heart beat take Obama on with his bowling……
Good for her. I think it must be a thoughtful, careful decision to abort or not. I used to care for some down syndrome kids and they were fantastic. But not all late term abortion advice is about that condition. My daughter was born with some disabilities and had to have a club foot and hip dysplasia repaired at an early age (today is her birthday–36 years old). She is a joy.
I have a sister who got pregnant at age 15 and gave birth at age 16. The pregnancy took a hard toll on her body. She had stretch marks from her bosom to her knees. Her bones were not fully formed and she could not have a 'natural' delivery and so there she was with a big C-section scar and covered with stretch marks at age 16. She married the baby's father and they are still together, but don't love each other. Her son grew up hating her, resenting her and makes the most terrible comments about his mother calling her the worst possible names. He is an alcoholic. So there she is, trapped in a life that she never really wanted—too young to make an 'informed' consent to have this child or not have this child. And look at her reward— a living hell for her terrible sin of being young and stupid and impetuous. My father told her that having this baby was the right thing to do. But where was he when she was up all night trying to rock a colicky kid to sleep and study for a high school exam at the same time? That's right. My Dad was nowhere around for her. It is easy to advise against abortion, but then by golly, you better be there to help mom out!
And yes, I don't want to pay for someone else's pleasures. Don't want to pay for babies that someone won't or cannot feed unless I WANT TO DO THAT!
NancyNurse you bring up a couple of very good points in this post and some of your subsequent posts. One of the glaring things that has not gotten much attention in the whole debate about abortion is the role and the responsibility of the guy. While I only support abortion in very limited circumstances (rape and true endangerment of the mother's life), I think our society is wrong in that we only blame the women or girls for unwanted pregnancies. When was the last time anybody publicly criticized men for making babies out of wedlock? When was the last time the fathers of these children were held accountable for their actions? When was the last time any commercials were aired advising guys that it's not cool to make babies that they and the girl are not prepared financially and emotionally ready to raise? Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting the women – especially feminists – off the hook. But aside from test-tube babies the last time I checked it still takes a girl AND a guy to make a baby. BOTH parties should be responsible. Admittedly this is a very controversial issue, and feminists have made it even more complicated by their attitudes. But at some point it would be great if the guys started taking responsibility and rejected the notion that the more babies you make the more of a stud you are.
Your comment about Sarah Palin reflects my own feelings about her choice regarding her Down's Syndrome baby. I am saddened and angered to say that one of my distantly-related in-laws had the gall to criticize Sarah Palin for not aborting the child. Our national attitude towards children and child-bearing has changed so much since Roe v Wade, and unfortunately it's not a good change.
I think each couple should carefully weigh ALL the consequences of their actions not just what is most expedient or feels right just for the moment. I also would like to criticize men who believe that once married that they should have as many kids as they desire and then abandon them when the woman looses her looks due to all the child bearing. And let's face it gals, your body is never the same after having a baby. And I don't care what the circumstances are, I think the state has every right to DEMAND that every child has both a father and mother on the birth certificate. If you cannot name your baby's father, than you are unfit as a mother in my book.
When I was a school nurse briefly, we had a young girl who was of Chinese origin in the school system. Teachers wanted me to talk with her as she was obviously pregnant. Shy about the subject, she said she was 'taking care of the problem'. I found out she was planning to have an abortion. She was 15 and the boy was 13. Yes, 13! At the time, she had to notify her parents who spoke only Chinese. The school was only concerned about dotting all the legal i's with parental notification. We were unable to find a translator, so I had to have the girl translate for herself…..who knows if she told her parents the truth. It really shook my world–the whole situation did. She went to have the abortion (she was 6 months pregnant at the time) and went somewhere like Missouri or Kansas. Her parents took her. The boy had a fit. His own mother wanted the baby for her own. The school was caught in the middle. All I can say was that the girl was back in school the very next day (poor thing) and didn't act like anything was wrong in the least. I was worried about herhemorrhagingor getting an infection or something, but she didn't. About the only thing that came out of the entire incident was that the boy said he felt terrible guilt and upset. Iremindedhim that he had no way of caring for a baby—no education, no job, no driver's license and got tough with him–told him to 'grow up' and learn how to be a real man. A real man isn't just about planting seeds in the nearest fertile garden, but about all the work and dedication it takes to bring those seeds to bear fruit of their own. I told him use better judgement and sense and don't get into this bind again. I felt bad for having to be mean to him, but I felt I needed to do that. The girl did not share any of my values or ideas about morality. I have no idea what happened to this boy or his Chinese girlfriend. I know they did not stay together.
The people I was most angry at was (besides the school who thought about only CYA) but both of these children's parents, especially the boy. Why weren't these kids being supervised? I know at age 15 I was not allowed to go on dates or to boy's houses. And at 13, what was the mother of this boy thinking? I would trust a two year old more than a 13 year old at home alone. The parents failed these kids the most in my book. Neither could really be held completely accountable for their rashness and poor judgement.
TJ:
I actually saw a commercial about men taking responsibility for fathering a child, paid for my a charity-related foundation.
Perhaps my solution is overly simplistic, but I think that when a man and a woman can't financially or morally support a child that requires that they accept state subsidies, I believe that both should be sterilized temporarily and be subject to testing for a reversal of the sterilization until they can prove financial responsibility — all supervised by some sort of "probationary" personnel. We can "encourage" men in this way to provide for their offspring by providing them with all sorts of choices (such as a lien on their lives, not being able to qualify for college or home loans if they won't provide for the financial support of their child).
Biologically speaking life begins at conception,Therefore being pro-choice is only weak way of describing justifiable homicide. In my opinion life begins at conception, you can try to justify some homicides are necessary, such as in self-defense,but it is homicide non-the-less. One has to personally wrestle with the decision to terminate that life,and if it is for reasons of inconvience,it is defind as murder. while I accept the fact that some mothers abort to save their own lives,I doubt at a rate of 3000 abortions a day that this is the case. As for rape,while I empathize with the feelings of the victim,it is still a homicide. While many men and women can justify this coarse of action,one would have to wonder if it would be forgiven by God.
That is your view about the start of life. I agree with that notion. Many now are saying that actually the 'living' process is not in the act of conception (the point that DNA from the egg and sperm merge) but might actually begin even sooner–with the preparations that go into making that egg and sperm and the hospitable environment for the zygote to float down the fallopian tubes to the womb. Spiritually speaking, I go with 'quickening' as in 'judge the quick and the dead.' Three months.
I don't know if there are 3,000 abortions a day or not. Where do you come by that figure? Is that ALL abortions, even spontaneous ones? And elective abortion is NOT the same as atherapeuticabortion or a spontaneous one.
And if all life beings at conception, then why does God himself terminate so many through miscarriage, etc. ? God says he can forgive anything as long as it is asked through Jesus Christ. Even murder. I am not sure how that works. I am not clergy. But I believe that God has the POWER and Jesus Christ had the authority to forgive all. If I don't believe in that, my God would be exactly as that of the Pharisees and the Muslims. Cold, impersonal, unforgiving.
But that said, I think there are better ways to 'prevent' pregnancy than to let it happen and have a D&C. That is stupid— and expensive in both financial and physical terms. It is risky, too. Let alone the moral and spiritual implications. After one abortion, ok, educate the couple about how to avoid the situation in the future. After the second, the problem isn't just a problem of passion clouding judgement. The problem includes stupidity, recurrent situations that are not smart and perhaps some abuse. I am glad I have not ever been placed in that position. But considering wanting multiple abortions, I think the enemy isn't women wanting abortions—it is in ignorance and promiscuity. Fight those fights!
Not to betray too much about myself, but I used to watch a lot of Star Trek. The Klingons in that show used to punish descendants of a criminal for many generations. I thought that concept was ridiculous, but it was how their culture (on the show) behaved.
A child that is a product of rape has done nothing wrong.
Shouldn't a woman have the option of carrying it to term and giving it up for adoption?
If that unborn kid was me, I wouldn't care who my father was.
I would want a shot at life.
Women who've been raped ARE given choices right now. But a pregnancy— all pregnancies carry risk for the mother–permanently scar her body in ways you would not ever see, and limit her reproductive future. She needs ALL options on the table with compassion and mercy toward her who has been violated. Just as I believe no one should ever be forced into combat, no one should ever be forced into pregnancy. And, believe it or not, it does take two people in a family to rear a child. Without a father in that child's future (unless adopted), what possible hope does that child have aside from just breathing?
And we simply do not know much about what 'causes' a person to become violent—we don't know if there is a gene that lends a person to act out in violent ways like those who commit serial rape. Why take the chance of perpetuating a very serious social problem?
This doesn't surprise me. I've been pro-choice, because I've felt it's none of my business to tell others what to do, especially those who have been raped and such. But now I don't feel so strongly when they are telling kids it's ok to not tell your parents and don't have to be informed for an abortion, but they aren't bright enough to take a couple of Midol to school for cramps without being charged for drugs. Or how absolutly brutal they were with Sarah Palin because she chose to have her son. Pro-choice ment the ability NOT TO CHOOSE an abortion, but they sure have altered that view now. I'm afraid if they don't put a clamp on it, they may do like China and somewhere down the road take that choice from us all together. Just like I worry about health care rationing…..what happens if I'm old, or have a rare blood type or something to where it proves more cost effective to kill me for parts than to help me?
Perhaps it will come with cap and trade. No old people, and only 1 child per family. What is so shocking is that MSNBC reported this, and didn't sweep it under the table.
I thought the same thing about MSNBC Gregory. The ratings for that station are horrible maybe they are trying a different approach, you know like reporting news that does not fit into the "progressive" agenda.
I just checked my e-mail and have something from Glen about those who think it's OK to abort babies based on gender. I missed the show, but I can say as one who was pro-choice, it was not for the purpose to be an alternate birth control method, or gender selection or anything of the sort. I was raised in an era where men abused women and against their will women were raped. I still can't in all honesty say it's my place to force an 8 yr. old girl to have a baby because she was raped by a child predator or some sick family member. But NO….I don't agree it's ok to based on, oh gee, they aren't the right sex, maybe not the right eye color, it was a wild night…..whatever…..no, that I don't go along with, and from the beginning it's something I had hoped it wouldn't morph into. Yet here we are. What looks good on the surface, can be changed to your worst nightmare.
Is it just me, or is there really a dichotomy here? Why is it that those who are so "tolerant" of others have to believe that being pro-choice actually thinks that this right to be pro-choice equaltes to the right to have an abortion? Doesn't that also mean to them that a woman — such as Sarah Palin — has the right NOT to have an abortion? Yet it is those very same feminists who BRUTUALLY attack Sarah Palin for having her child. I don't understand this.
What is it that I am missing in not understanding their intolerance. Was it simply because she's a Republican?
There is. I get the right, only to have someone else tell me what to do with it. It shocked me when because I'm a woman, they expected me to vote for Hillary. Hugh? I fought for my rights so I could choose, not hand it over to someone to someone to tell me what to do. They pounded Sarah, raked Miss California over the coals, there's definately a dual set of rules here and it seems my rights aren't the issue after all…..just what the club tells me I should think or do.
Unfortunately I doubt it.
Is this the same planned parenthood that tells minors to lie to judges in order to obtain an abortion? Or the same planned parenthood that performs abortions on minors without notification of parents?
You are right, it is a thoughtful decision when it's responsible people making the decision. If you choose abortion, it is not something that is easy, or something that doesn't haunt you day and night for the rest of your life. Then if you have relegious beliefs, you wonder if you haven't doomed yourself forever in the after-life. There are many women in situations like your sister, where they are punished in ways one would never know, until they live it. And for anyone to say that is better or justified, just doesn't know what they are talking about. What has surprised me about this abortion issue, is men are the biggest anti -abortion workers, yet the first to ditch the responsibilities when push comes to shove. They are the first to ditch relationships when the child is "special", not the son they always wanted, more than they bargained for, too much of a burden..whatever. It's always easy to tell someone what to do, when YOU don't have to do it.
Yes. the very same. I know you are skeptical and that ruling is controversial. The counselors i observed ALWAYS told the girls to tell their parents about their situation. And like I said, they gave much more info about prenatal care and referrals to adoption agencies than about abortion, which always came as the last piece of info offered. Most of the girls had already made up their minds anyway…they'd gotten info from their girlfriends about abortions. I happen to agree with you. The parents should be informed. If the parents become violent, then the young woman needs to be removed from the home environment and a criminal case built. But I think most parents are disappointed rather than violent with their daughters. The nurses that I observed were very professional and didn't act too cuddly duddly with the girls and didn't over mommy them. There were not mean or condescending, either. Just gave them facts. Every girl who came in for a pregnancy test was given information about what makes babies and about contraception, too, so if it was a 'false alarm' they were not necessarily going to see them on the abortion table the next month.
I have to laugh about something…… a girl I went to High School with is on facebook and is a great grandmother at my age (56). Her father was the Paster of the local Baptist Church. She got pregnant at age 16 and never slowed down any—all girls. Her daughters took after her and had a bunch of kids, too at a likewise early age! And now another generation is having kids! 56 and a great grandmother—not just once but she's had four or five great grandkids already. She looks tired!
So very true. There must be a common sense approach. And most people are not even aware that those who've used BCPs or IUDs are really having an abortion in many cases. The fertilized egg cannot implant because there is not enough uterine material to embed in in some BCPs or the uterus gets irritated and the embryo cannot implant in the case of IUDs. Not all BCPs prevent ovulation. And another thing is that many women have fertilized eggs that do not implant and the zygote floats away with the menses. So not every fertilized egg develops into a baby anyway……
<DIV>You are correct. An IUD prevents an egg from emplaning, so it is nothing more than a discrete form of abortion. Remember when some children were born holding the copper 7 in their hand? Within the first trimester, anything can happen. Is it murder if the woman mis-carries? Lord knows any who have wanted and lost a child durning that time, gets the routien….well God makes his choices, maybe this was nature taking it's course….</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>They cannot decide anymore when life begins than they can decide when life is over…..
— On Sat, 5/16/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
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Thall shall not KILL Nancy…Thats all God says. It's not me that said it…Its God.
God says "I knew you in the womb"…and you want to kill that child? Shame on you!
Abortion is MURDER. Plain and simple. Its a child not an inconvieniece. For God;s sake if we could get everyone to stop killing our children. We would ahve plenty of money to feed and clothe them. We are under the judgement of God because of Roe Vs. Wade.
You need to think about what the hell you are saying. I am not Judging anyone. God will. Im just trying to get you to see the folly of your thinking! Anyone involved in any sin will be judged. Mine is paid for. And I stand on the side of God…Come join me…
NancyNurse, coming in late on the discussion but wanted to let you know that I agree with you. This is one sore subject for many. But, I loathe late term abortions-I shudder to think. And a rape victim should retain the choice.
Yea right!
That is just human nature Gene. We where not content with all of the other trees in the Garden of Eden. So we where thrown out. Kinda makes you wonder what's in store for mankind.
Barf=bag, please!
Shades of Kim Ill something.
In the pouch in front of your seat.
Patty – I think that is indeed an excellent question. At 3000 a day I feel certain that not all cases were a case of rape or life or death. The number is just too high. The other thing that truly bothers me about abortion is that some people who are pro-abortion seem to just smile and beam when they talk about it. That bothers me a lot. Since when are deaths ever a good thing or funny or whatever emotion that brings? I can see that some days we may have choices of who lives or dies, but to happy about deaths, well, there is something I just find wrong with it. Yes, I decided long ago that it was the smiles and happiness about the high number of abortions that bothered me the very most. Are the people who do that human? I have never applauded the death of any human being. That I suppose makes me extremely pro life. But I again wish no law. A law may force death on a mother or a child, and that to me is wrong.
Exactly! I agree. He is far too mysterious
That was totally a joke and I have no idea why it took your reply 3 days to show up in my email.
— On Sat, 5/16/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
And obviously his white mother did not feel that way either, after being impregnated by a black man from Kenya. Ronald Reagan once said that "only living people were against abortion"
And obviously his white mother did not feel that way either, after being impregnated by a black man from Kenya. Ronald Reagan once said that "only living people were FOR abortions"
LOL
The point I was trying to make is that we as humans don't have the right to say who lives or who dies. The ONLY one who has that right is the AUTHOR of Life…GOD. Only GOD says when we go home to Heaven. Miracles still take place today, what is impossible for man is Possible for God. We need to let God be The Judge, not us. THOU SHALT NOT KILL Says God Almighty.
I think that the demos had better leave debating to those in media. They're not even in Sarah Palin's league. She is a very classy person. I think America is ready for some of her brand of "tuff luv." She's a great governor and a good mother.
"But men wouldn't know what that is about would they? It is easy for men to just jump on board that train and ride it to the end of the station."
Nancy, I've considered how to respond to this post since you wrote it. I want to assure you that I have actually prayed about my response. I hope you'll receive it one-Christian-to-another. My mother was a career woman, the Chief of Staff to the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. She didn't want to be a full-time mother. When my father died in 1952 of wounds he received in WWII, my mother died in part with him. Years later she was engaged to a very powerful, influential attorney in Washington who became ill on Friday and died of cancer the same weekend. My mom attempted suicide. I spent the my childhood years in a Lutheran orphanage: She was never the same.
Your statement is very generalized and, in my opinion, not true for all men.
"Of course, you are a man and quick to judge. Have you ever had morning sickness? Stretch marks? A C-section? Breast fed a baby at 2 a.m.? I don't think so."
No, but I walked my son for hours almost every night until he was a toddler. I fed him, changed his diapers, helped him while he was teething, slept with him when storms scared him, hugged him when he was hurt, scared, injured or ill and helped him through hundreds of setbacks, fights, bullies, lost sports games and a hundred other disappointments. Not all suffering is cosmetic or temporary — or even physical. I suffered right along with him
"I believe in the Fruits of the Holy Spirit, and that last one is self control."
I'm sorry that you have such contempt of men, whatever the cause. Some of us have probably worked next to other nurses: I was trained at Johns Hopkins and worked emergency, obstetrics, pediatrics and oncology long enough to see that nothing is as general as the pictures you paint.
"In the case of RAPE? I don't think you could possibly ask a woman to go through with that! �Of course, you are a man and quick to judge. Have you ever had morning sickness? Stretch marks? A C-section? Breast fed a baby at 2 a.m.? I don't think so."
I guess, Nancy, it depends on whether or not you consider abortion to be murder.
I do.
Thus responding to rape by murdering an unborn child seems absolutely barbaric to me.
(Especially if you're doing it because you don't want "stretch marks"…)
Patty:
Right on!
By the way, just for the sake of accuracy, doesn't the Hebrew text translates to "Thou shall not commit murder."
The actual quote translated out of aramaic and greek says thou shalt not murder. Why are you not helping those with children now? Didn't Moses kill? Didn't Joshua? And David? Why do you throw the Old Testament out while you embrace only the new. Jesus himself said it best__-I come in order to fulfill the law.
And aren't you alsocondemningsome women to death for the sin of 'loving?' My God won't let me do that, either. Only that woman/family should be involved with that decision, not you, me or others who claim to know 'the law' under God.
Did not God 'kill' during Noah's flood? Why was it ok for God?
I am not asking you to have an abortion—or have your wife have an abortion. Or you daughter. But you cannot possibly say that under every circumstance YOUR WAY is the ONLY way.
I am not disputing God's sovereignty or God's omnipotence. If the woman aborts her baby iscommittinga sin, she WILL be judge as you say. But so will everyone who smokes, who drinks alcohol who swears as you did in your reply to me. We have ALL sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. YOu say you stand on the side of God, but then you would allow the devil seed of a rapist to take root and grow? The God I worship is not that God! And I really don't think you know the difference between an 'inconvenience' and a 'burden.' Some women, like my mother, didn't feel having five babies in 10 years was an inconvenience—it was a burden that she bore alone. My father took pleasure and she paid the price. And that burden became insurmountable until she lost it. And then my FATHER had her put away and her brain shocked until she could not even REMEMBER her own children. Thanks! If that is an example of God's mercy–I can see why so many people are running to the 'dark side' ofpolitics. I am saying if you an independent or a libertarian, then you will say that I do not practice abortion, but I won't stop those who do before the 2nd trimester and 'quickening.' That is what I am saying.
And one other thing….my father brought home about one hundred dollars a week. 100 divided by 7 = 14.28. How can you EVER figure out that having MORE kids will multiply that figure? And if you are saying just keep having babies galore, then isn't that taking away food and provisions from someone else somewhere? How many children do YOU support right now, weekly anyhow?
MURDERING a BABY is NEVER an option. RAPE and INCEST are straw dog arguments that pro abortionist make all the time. I am sad that you take that position. So is it not a baby in the first trimester? Answer that one honestly Nancy. Is it a child or isnt it?
And yes i am free from the law of the 10 commandments because Christ paid the debt of my sins. But am I to stop following them when its inconvienient? Give me a break.
Kill your burdens even if they are a BABY. Real dumb!
Sorry Nancy you are PRO ABORTION…Be honest about who you are…
Besides Nancy. If the American people were allowed to adopt a baby and not have to pay thousands of dollars to do it there would be pleanty of good homes for any child…But we need regulations and laws…BS!! So if we could get rid of those stupid laws too then the burden as you call it would be gone too because we would have millions of good people who would step up and take a baby to raise.
But the MORONS in our government stand with you and wont allow anything but a terrible choice…That choice is MURDER OF A CHILD…
It was LOVE!
Or someone else from the 30's!
RNHunter, who are you talking about?
My Orthodox Bible says "Thou Shalt Not Murder", maybe you're thinking of "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" ? But my Catholic Bible says "You Shall Not Kill".
Btw, thank you sir for serving our country, in keeping us safe. I see that you are a combat veteran…God bless you.
You're welcome. I have served my country in other ways such as flying mail and service personnel baggage to the middle east, and doing what I can to provide service personnel with food and personal "comfort" items, a project my bride and I have been involved with. But my service was a contribution, compared to those who have given their lives for their fellow soldiers. God bless them all, and their families, too.
The translation of the ten commandments depends upon who wrote your Bible, I guess. I was relying on a biblical scholar who interprets the ancient Hebrew or Greek (Aramaic, when it comes to quotes of Jesus). But there is the distinction that God cammanded us not to murder, which is much different than killing. Soldiers kill (unless you're an Islamofascist). Abortionists murder.
I believe the stats are less than 1 percent of abortions fall under the justifiable homicide opinion I mentioned such as rape or life of mother. This whole dilemma of abortion is primarily debated on when life begins and that is in my opinion is where it should be redefined. Like I stated before,It is my opinion that life begins at conception,and you stated you believe it starts before this point. Either way after conception,a baby properly cared for will be born. If a natural event such as miscarraige occurs,I believe it is Gods will and I would not question why
Now, this is a spiritual question…….if you are Christian….. you are basing your argument on the 10 commandments, right? Which of those commandments is the greatest sin? Which in God's eyes deserves the biggest punishment by God?
And if you believe, really believe that a woman should be condemned to possible death (or even eternal damnation) for being in the wrong place at the wrong time with a fertilized egg—one cell—then wouldn't God punish you equally harshly for even a white lie? Or cheating on a test? Or cursing?
Sorry. I think you need to read your Bible again. You are free to believe what you want. But I don't believe that a God who pardoned the thief on the cross would condemn a woman for flushing a 'potential' baby from her womb before it has been born if she did not willingly consent to the sexual relations that created that baby in the first place.
I also think that your use of the word homicide is emotionally, not rationally laden. If you want to be perfectly correct, infanticide is better. But if the baby causes his or her mother to die, wouldn't that baby then be guilty of matricide? See. What a convoluted and stupid argument.
Let each person decide for themselves. That is all I am saying.
And who exactly to you promote to perfom this? The state? With all due respect and i know you meant good intentions,that would be the type of violation of civil rights that we talk about being against as a 912er
The ACLU would shoot that solution down in court. Imagine the impact though if the ad you saw was played repeatedly on the major networks. Better yet, imagine the impact if Obama actually appeared in the commercial. It's all a question of leadership, and our leaders are sorely lacking.
I cannot verify that 3000 abortions are performed daily. That figure came from one of your replies on this thread. While I can understand a woman or a child not carrrying a baby from rape to term,in my opinion no matter how revolting the act of rape is,and if you believe life begins at conception you are still terminating a life. It may be a matter of justifiable homicide and may well be a forgivable sin.but I am not in the position to speak for God.
God said"though shalt not kill",however he also told his disciples to sell there coats for daggers to protect themselves.Therefore God does not believe in murder of an innocent ,but believes in self preservaton of life or self defense. I do believe far to many woman use abortion as a form of contraception after the fact and i believe it is this practice that is deplorable.
— On Sun, 5/17/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
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I can't believe there is someone slower than me because I knew it was a joke right away! So, Jake take a chill pill!