5/15/09: MILITARY TRIBUNALS TO RE-START ON GITMO, BUT JUST A FEW
Posted by the912project on May 15, 2009 · 91 Comments
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91 Responses to “5/15/09: MILITARY TRIBUNALS TO RE-START ON GITMO, BUT JUST A FEW”The Restoring Honor Rally August 28, 2010
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Guantanamo should have never been built! We would not have this mess if we had kept the terrorists, enemy combatants, etc in the Afganistan and Iraq. This was a huge policy mistake of the Bush administration. It caused us also to violate our own constitution! Read Judge Napolitanos' book 'Constitutional Chaos'. It is fantastic and eye opening. Don't get me wrong, I love and admire George Bush and was an ardent supporter most of the time. He just got bad advice sometimes from Ashcroft and others. They have also imprisoned American citizens at Guantonamo for over 2 years and not allowed them trials or attorneys! This is just as unconstitutional as the raid on Waco Texas by the Clinton administration. If we pick and choose the Liberties guaranteed us by the founding documents and our laws, we are no different than those in power now! Libertarians unite!
Look we should have hung them right on tv lets cut the crap here .You all know if we the people were running this country these terroist would be dead by now .This is a political show .The rest of the world tortures are you fools .This whole thing is a sham ..
You are a sham.
Liberals respond to polls they make decisions by the polls Obama first has to please his leftest then he turns a 180 and is forced to change his mind by the polls .This man is slick and he knows how to play the crowd .sadly he convinces the majority of people and they support him .The people like us who see through this usurper fraud snake oil salesman we all belong to the 9/11 group. If we could only get 70%of the voters to join us we would scare the heck out of washington.
Liberals respond to polls they make decisions by the polls Obama first has to please his leftest then he turns a 180 and is forced to change his minds by the polls .This make is slick and he knows how to play the crowd .sadly he convinces the majority of people and they support him .The people like us who see through this usurper fraud snake oil salesman we all belong to the 9/11 group. If we could only get 70%of the voters to join us we would scare the heck out of washington.
Huh?
Obama has painted himself into another corner. Nobody anywhere in the world will take these prisoners at GITMO including any Congressmen in the U.S. BO has set a date certain to close the prison and he will flip flop on this just like he did about the military tribunals.
Good job , very slowly President Obama is realizing that leading the greatest country in the world isnt as easy as it may look!! He finally see's that he can not make everyone happy all the time!! Maybe now he will stop cutting the ONE BUDGET that he shouldnt our defense!!
Obama Failed Defense Policy: Obama criticized the military tribunal system established by President George W. Bush because it had only succeeded in prosecuting three suspected terrorist in more than seven years. By releasing the so called CIA torture memos, Obama opened American citizens up to international tribunals. A UN lawyer said the US is obliged to prosecute lawyers who drafted the memos or else violate the Geneva Conventions.
How about a comment from BO that the military tribunal system established by President George W. Bush at GITMO were correct and give Bush some credit for doing things right when he deserves it.
BO flipped on restarting the GITMO trials with three differences.
1. Evidence gathered by EIT methods will not be used.
2. Terrorists get flexibility in choosing their lawyers.
3. Hearsay evidence will be limited.
Guess what? These were Bush Policies already in place. As Karl Rove so brilliantly put it, these so called changes are like adding a bumper sticker to an existing car or adding a Christmas tree deodorizer to the car’s mirror.
You make some very good points. As for politicians just following polls, yes. Once In Carlsbad CA my wife and I got a petition going to stop the council from turning a beautiful canyon into factories. We had over 100 signatures. One of the politicians told us straight out that if we had 200, they would stop. So there seems to be no right or wrong with these politicians, but just fear of them keeping their jobs. And yes I hear that Obama watches polls quite closely and even has focus groups watching. Your other comment I also agree with. People seem to love Obama but hate his policies. Huh? Even in the 15th Century Machiavelli (the “Prince” book) said that people should be known by their deeds and not their words. So you and I and the smart people here want the deeds to be right, but the Jay Walk All Stars (uninformed people that Jay Leno comedian meets on the streets) just listen to the words and believe all that they hear.
Thank you. You are right – he does use focus groups. We have to work on the politicians we have some hope for (if there are any yet) to get this out to the people, literally tying him to the policies they object to.
Meanwhile, there has been a significant increase in the number of muslims being smuggled into the U.S. across our southern border. Most of them are coming through Nicaragua first. There has been a 300% increase in apprehensions of muslim men by the border patrol in the last three months. Almost 8 years after 9/11 we still have an open border!!! Why???
http://homelandsecurityus.com/?p=2749
Ask President Bush 43.
The real news here is that he has broken yet another promise to the people who voted for him, but of course you will NEVER get any emphasis on that from the MSM. I know some people are regretting voting for him, but I want them to regret it so bad that they will never again use their vote in such a reckless manner.
I did once hear of a group who like Obama thought everyone was good and of course harmless if you just talk to them. I think those people were called the Eloi and the movie as The Time Machine by HG Wells. The cute and wonderful Eloi lived in total peace thinking everyone else would also. There was zero evidence in the movie that the Eloi ever considered waterboarding or (shudder) putting an evil caterpillar in the same room as your enemies. Everything was swell and it was a perfect world. It was perfect, at least, until night fall when the Morlocks came out and ate the Eloi for dinner Apparently the Morlocks did not hold the same high regard for peace.
Hmmm… HG Wells was a writer, mostly of fantasy, mystery, science fiction, who knew how to scare the pants off his reader… there's no WAY fiction could mimic life… you're living in fantasy land RNHunter!
What islamists did on 911 was just a photo op gone awry, they didn't really mean any harm, and anyone who says they did is just a bigotted extremist. The Time Machine is not one of the stories in my HG Wells collection, but if it were, I'm sure I would read that you had purposely misconstrued Mr Wells' words. I am sure the Morlocks were hungry and justified. They had probably been abused in their childhoods, and the particular Eloi they chose to eat were probably old, diseased, or unwanted fetuses. Heck, if the story was in Sweden, said fetuses were probably the wrong gender, so it was their fault and they had it coming.
…. And… RNHunter…. I DEMAND to see your notes…. when were you briefed on this story…. what did you know, and when did you know it! I bet when the truth comes out, you were briefed about that red-necked faction of the Elois that had secretly been defending against the Morlocks' reasonable right to attack the Elois.
Well, good point. I did also question the veracity of that story. So I went to visit them and found that I could talk to both groups if I just arrived at Morlock dinner time. My first problem I found was that there was no word or phrase in Eloi language for common sense. The words I heard from the Eloi it turned out were mostly last words such as “You Morlocks must have been disadvantaged as a child, no? Probably the victim of prejudice. Let me help”. But the only answer I heard to that from the Morlocks was a loud chomping sound, followed by a Morlock burp. I swear that this story is true with my hand on a stack of Pelosi’s and Barney Franks.
Nice escape from reality. Good luck with that.
This is nothing but a white-wash.
Explain white-wash.
The mere fact that that these people are not citizens or wearing the uniform of a recognized nation, gives us the right to more intensely scrutinize their intentions; thusly stripping away whatever rights they or the ACLU think they have.
Why is it a "mere" fact?
YES But McVeigh was a white american ex servise man. The kind they love to hate.
The longer Obama is in office, the more he follows Bush's lead. President Obama had to do a reality check.
You should give your own post scrutiny. Obama is following Bush's lead? Think about that.
Yes, Obama did stop his trial, but he remains in jail.
So for example ,,,,Terrorist Fred is a GITMO Defendent,,,all he has to do is remain SILENT,as the GOVERMENT has the duty to find Guilt ,,,so if NOBODY is allowed to testify ( yea like Osma Bin Laden will apprear as a charter witness,,of Mike the terrorist makes a statement( the defence as it would be hearsay ( has to be thrown OUT and not admissible,,,,,no crime sence evidence exists,,,what Obama thinks the Hills in Afgan had security cameras,,,,,,,
So basicly,,UNLESS the TERRORIST JUMPS up and claims he did it,,he will be set free in the USA,,,
This is OBAMAs secret plan,,,,no country will take them ,and he will not just take them back,,,so in order to PRETEND to have a JUSTICE TRIAL,,,than find them NOT GUILTY,,and be allowed to bring them to the USA,,,regardless of what CONGRESS would say,,,thier eis no doubt in my mind OBAMA /Holder set this up,,,to mislead,politicaly impress other TERRORIST ,EMBOLDEN them as they know OBAMA only ALLOWS PILLOW FLUFFING INTERGATION,,and NO REAL EVIDENCE AS ONE TERRORIST CANNOT BE USED TO TESTIFY AGAINST ANOTHER,,,GUESS what,,,OSAM gets a nice new home in YOUR AREA,,,knowing the goverment as I do,,,they POBLEY will give them WITNESS PROTECTION,,,and some money,,,access to new and IMPROVE intellegence GATHERING against us,,with INTERNETS as they would be NOT GUILTY,,,forget the AMERICANS they help KILL are DEAD and cannot testify,,,,
Its a sad day when a PRESIDENT makes such discusting arrangements,,,hey look at it this way,,,maybe one TERRORIST will live next to PELOSI when she gets out of office,,,
Ah! Someone who gets it…
Dave, that's exactly how I read it. I am not a legal mind (thank God), so am "unqualified" in this opinion, but I surely do agree with your take on this situation.
I know how the US Department of Justice works,,,why do you think we refer to it as INJUSTICE,,,:),, the fine men and women who preform thier duties AGREE A GREAT DEAL with the 9 12 Project,,,Yet they smile when the DIRECTOR OF THE CIA STOOD UP ,,,as thier BOSS Ag Holder,,,sat,worried how his daddy Obama would want him to do,,,yet the LAW REQUIRES EVERY CRIME REPORTED BE INVESTIGATED,,,Holder will not,,it also is a DIRECT BREACH of US Dept JUSTICE and CFR,,( Code of FEDERAL REGS,,but than HOLDER knows that as well,,,as he worked with that DAILY as an ETHICS attorney,,,but than OBAMA is having discussions with HOLDER about NOT doing so,,,as OBAMA has never said its under investigation,,,yes there is a legal term " AUTHORIZATION BY AQUENIENCE meaning authorize by not doing NOTHING to stop ,CORRECT,,,thus making OBAMA a cover up,,,and the fine decent men and women who put thier lives on the line are JUST AS DISCUSTED to have a dirty boss as we are to have a DIRTY AG,,,
Winecup,,,you would be suprised how the bia media is not saying a word,,,yet they have to know,,,all I hear is how they are " laying the groud work suttly,,,and when OBAMas MOCK trials find them not guilty,,,than they would even be protected under the HATE CRIME ACt,,,oh yea this is been in the works,,,but than TERRORISTS are looking forward to it,,,as even our LEOS cannot just stop and ask what they are doing as that is PROFILING,,,hecl ACLU will gladly REPRESENT them,,,even if they had a BOMB strapped on them,,,
Obama is simply responding to poll numbers. He says he won't release photos the day after public opinion polls indicate 70some Americans think it a bad idea. Has anyone heard polling results on the closing of Gitmo? He had no plan for these people, and his great apology tour netted virtually no takers. So he comes up with something else.
He cares most about his popularity. It is interesting that his personal popularity is holding, but when polling policies he promotes without attaching his name to them, the positive numbers are very low. This tells me that the Republicans must tie him and his policies together. It seems the people are not yet seeing that.
And Dick Chaney's attacks have work as the American people reacted strongly in those polls. The only thing is that Obama won't release the memos that Chaney is referring to about what was gained from the enhanced intorrogations. Obama is really running scared of Chaney. That it why his friends in the media are trying everything in their power to silence him.
Cheney won't be silenced, and neither will his daughter. You're right…Cheney sure has them worried. He needs to keep talking.
Obama already let the mastermind to the Cole bombing go. I don't know where he is but he is loose, probably in Yemen.
That one was cleared up on O'Reilly last night. Morris got it wrong. He has not been released.
A lot of people on the left are questioning their views of Gitmo. Obama thinks that his mere presence impresses, it does, but only to those who have no common sense, the rest of us are disgusted by him. He thought that he could persuade countries to take the terrorists, but even socialist europe knows that is a bad idea. Now he is forced to admit he was wrong and Bush was right. This isn't the first or the last time that he's going to be wrong, and prove Bush was right.
The Geneva Conventin ONLY applies to unformed personnel. It clearly disregards civil fighters. That was done for a reason.
These guys should be tried only by a war court formed by the afflicted country. They are not entitled to the same rights as citizens and should never be allowed to have those rights. I think the evidence points clearly enough to say these guys qualify for execution for crimes against humanity.
Stop the bickering and just put them out of OUR misery.
Sorry Don but your statment is inaccurate concerning the conventions apply solely to military personnel . Very clearly almost of all these detainees are either unprivileged combatant status, or they are privileged. This is really complicated and I think treating them as enemy combatants, based on all the briefings I've attended make sense and is fair.
GET READY for a TERRORIST living near you,,,
As I listened to the White House Press Sec Robert "bagdad bob" present the OFFICAL way TERRORITS will be tried,,, is a SET UP so that they may be found NOT guilty of any CRIME and able to be REALESED to the AMERICAN STREETS,,,,,the main POINTS are set up as to INSURE a finding of NOT GUILITY,,,
1.NO EVIDENCE may be used in regards to information,statements made during INTERGATION.
2.NO HERESAY ( that is another making a statement of what they know about anothes actions/activites may be used IF objected too,,( of course terrorists will say they were bird watchers and did not see or hear anything,,,)3.TERRORISTS may SELECT thier OWN attorney,,,guess who pays for that,,,even AMERICANS do not get that right,,in the USA ATTORNIES are assigned,,,
4.UCMJ ( Uniform Code of Military Justice that is the laws that govern US Armed forces) will be used,,,yes,it has a 5th Amend type code,,yet US COURTs will over see the Military trials,decisions,,,etc,,,US CONGRESS also will be able to interfer with the judical system in allowing CONTIUNIENCES ( delays),,,as well as other aspects,,,
5.NONE of our AMERICAN COURTS have such open,,,directed actions as to insure a NOT GUILTY FINDING,,,yet if OBAMA allows even one case to be tired like this ,,,it if applied to US CRIMINAL COURTs would be an even WORSE system,,,as it would set a presendence( a term meaning standing to apply to any US court,STATE courts CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM,,,,
GET READY for a TERRORIST living near you,,,
As I listened to the White House Press Sec Robert "bagdad bob" present the OFFICAL way TERRORITS will be tried,,, is a SET UP so that they may be found NOT guilty of any CRIME and able to be REALESED to the AMERICAN STREETS,,,,,the main POINTS are set up as to INSURE a finding of NOT GUILITY,,,
1.NO EVIDENCE may be used in regards to information,statements made during INTERGATION.
2.NO HERESAY ( that is another making a statement of what they know about anothes actions/activites may be used IF objected too,,( of course terrorists will say they were bird watchers and did not see or hear anything,,,)
Chancellor Obama (D-Kenya) has changed the rules so that the stage is set for these ragheads to be released. He's already stacked the deck, that's the only reason he's agreed to the tribunals. He was raised as a muslim/aetheist – of course he'll do what he can to see that these terrorists are freed. To me he is giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
It sure must be difficult to act like your protecting America while at the same time helping his fellow muslims in their Jihad.
I Belive you are right on,
It seems that the left wants us to fight a kinder gentler war. There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution or the Genva Convention that requires any type of "hearings" except when caught on a countries soil as a spy, look back in history, now they want to treat these terrorists as human beings, BULL! They are rabid animals acting like animals, therefore they should be treated as such. They are emenies of the U.S. and therefore NOT, in my humble opinion, be treated otherwise. When your emeney tries to kill you, you can only do one thing, kill them. I feel they should be kept as a prisoner, notice I didn't say POW, till the conflict is over, just as we did in every war prior to this one. These animals are not POW's, that term is reserved for UNIFORMED military personnel, fighting under the flag of a country. These are combatants in civilian clothes fighting against a uniform force, therefore they are spies and subject to execution by being shot or hung. I perfer both. Hang them, then shoot them. Do you think the terrorists are worried about how to treat our troops if they are captured?
OldMarine, you are credit to our country. When and if the time comes I will happily supply the place and the bullets.
God, I pray I may not have to take you up on that, but I appreciate it and will keep it in mind. Franly, I have my evasion plan to get out ofJerry's kingdom if needed.
Chancellor Obama (D-Kenya) and the Dem's don't understand that they have declared war on us. Jihad is called for in the 6th pillar of Islam. KIlling Americans and non-believers is justified in their world. They are enemy combatants in a religous war, they are not soldiers, and not afforded the protections that uniformed soldiers are. I would use any means necessary to extract information that would save American lives. These are fanatics. They have no "rights" those were forfeited when they decided to take up arms. Maybe we should kill more of them on the battlfield, and the ones we do capture, execute them , bury them in a big hole and build a latrine over the top.
That is how you deal with these Shiitheads.
This actually goes back to the Crusades, remember they did conquor about of land around the Med. You are right,Americans were fat, dumb, happy and \”safe\” here in America. It couldn't happen here. We had a President that treated the \”isolated\” acts of terror as a law enforcement problem, WTC 1,U.S.S. Cole, 2 embaseies in Africa.They had been at war with us since the 70's, ask the parents and friends of the young sailor beaten to a pulp and dumped on the tarmac. How about the Beruit Bombing? Yet, here we are, fighting animals that would cut the liberals throat in a NY minute, and theyto give them milk and cookies. Iam waiting for the outrage when we get hit again. I want to hear Queen Bee scream and cry when there is a large smoking hole in San Francisco, I want her to going crying to the CIA about why they didn't know about it and warn everyone. If I was the CIA, I'd look her in the eye and say,\”You wouldn't believe us, we just a bunch of liars.\”
WOW OldMarine What a rant I couldn't have said it any better.
Thank you, wait untill I really get wound up.
Amen OldMarine…
Hang them high, hang them now and hang them often…
I study a lot of British Imperial history and in particular a favourite personality of mine from the Imperial Age of Britain is one General Sir Charles James Napier, G.C.B. (Knight Grand Cross Order of the Bath). In the mid 1800's Pakistan was part of India and the Scinde province (modern day Sindh) was majority Muslim and under British Colonial rule. Sir Napier was the commander and Governor of that province. The people responded to nothing other than brute force and the close guard of the British Army. That was the EXACT prescription for their behaviour, they were hanged. In fact in his memoirs and personal accounts Sir Napier mentioned that the period of prosperity was under military rule and commerce. As soon as the politicians and Bureaucrats in London starting sending their inept bureaucratic civil servants to institute civil government, the system began to fall apart. Those people do not respond to civility, rather only to the close watch of rifle and bayonet.
You might appreciate this quote by General Sir Charles James Napier, G.C.B. while speaking about a local Muslim leader in the Indian province of Scinde (Now modern day Sindh, Pakistan) which failed to surrender after Sir Napier had quashed the revolt, The Good General said to this insolent man:
"Come here instantly. Come here at once and make your submission or I will in a week tear you from the midst of your village and hang you."
If the British were able, just barely mind you, to hold onto a colony through occupation, brute force and military might what makes us believe that diplomacy and fighting a civilised war with these types of radicals will yield any fruits? I am of the opinion that this war was already lost and our fate was sealed the second we started playing politics and not putting our Westpoint/Citadel and Virginia Military Academy career generals in the driver seat with absolutely authority. The lack of support from politicians that Sir Napier faced is the same lack of support from our politicians our generals face. I could go on and on about the injustices the modern renditions of history have done to the British and Sir Napier, but that would get this way off topic.
The following is a list of popular quotes by the good General Sir Charles James Napier…
While speaking on the custom of Suttee, practiced by some sects of Hindu's:
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
"The best way to quiet a country is a good thrashing, followed by great kindness afterwards. Even the wildest chaps are thus tamed"
I'm not familar withGeneral Napier, I'll have to do some research on him. Sounds very interesting. Thank you.
These guys should have been tried by the military, and either released or executed the first two weeks after their capture. By being kinder and gentler, we have emboldened our foe, and given fodder for those on the left to promote the "hate America" agenda. Put them to Tribunal, than put them in the grave.
This is unAmerican to let these murderers go! What happens when you are called to Jury duty? These guys will know who you are, where live and your family! We can't refuse jury duty or we will go to jail.
Carole: In the three years that I remained following Mugabe's take-over of Zimbabwe-Rhodesia (a particularly scary time), I heard many tales from vets of de**h-t***ts and attempts on their lives. Those th***ts contained knowledge of their whereabouts during particular "contacts." I have not studied American post-civil war history, I am no historian… are there similar stories in American history? Is this re – trib – ution typical of post-war in society? This is all getting too creepy, like a foreign war has been brought home, purposely, to be fought on our own soil. Ah well, in Utopia, world government will control everything and there will be no such thing as extremism, cos we will all have forgotten how to think for ourselves; no black-and-white, only grey, and anyone who's genes show any tendency for independent thinking will be exter – minated. I feel so much better now.
Who did the detainees murder?
I would like to know what is taking so long with these trials anyway.
Remember when McVeigh bombed OKC? They tried him and sent him to my home state of Indiana where he was promptly executed all within 4 years.
If they have the evidence then try them, and off with their heads.
But, and some of you may not agree, if there is no evidence then let them go.
Some of them that have been let go end up on the battle field again yes, so you hand out pictures to our boys on the ground and if we see them again they should be shot on sight.
They are muslims. World opinion effects this regardless of our opinion…
Also, McVeigh stopped fighting the court proceedings that would have prolonged his life.
I agree with you bawnyfwank, if there is lack of evidence lets quit taking care of them and let them go as you said. They would be just another casuality on the battlefield and we could quit hearing about them.
Anything that gives the ACLU heartburn, must be a good thing.
Nancy and Obama should go on trial first…they've been torturing all of us!
Close Gitmo and send them all to my house…I will guard them until they are ready for trial….
Of course I might not feed them anything but bacon sandwiches and pork rhinds…Kinda test their metal…
You rock. Hang ham hocks all over like garlic for vampires. Hilarious.
Close Gitmo and send them all to my house…I will guard them until they are ready for trial….
Of course I might not feed them anything but bacon sandwiches and pork rhinds…Kinda test their metal…
What BHO just said something to get elected, and is now taking it back because it doesn't make any sense… That's not possible. Our government is filled with honorable, ethical, and moral people. RIIIIGHT….
I love it. the loud mouth on the campaign trail now has to actually do something besides vote present on an issue that has actually had some serious publicity. Do not write checks with your mouth that you cannot cash.
Like I said before, this is only an Issue because of Obama's warped mind made promises to close GITMO during his campaign, so he announced the closing as one of his first presidential duties, not having the foggiest Idea what to do with the 240 detainies! What an IDIOT!
like I said before he made all those campaign promises without thinking it through now he's stuck.
Yes he is going to allow tribunals to re-convene. There are other things that will be a part of them, however … including:
* Restrictions on hearsay evidence that can be used in court against the detainees.
* A ban on all evidence obtained through cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. This would include statements given from detainees who were subjected to waterboarding.
* Giving detainees greater leeway in choosing their own military counsel.
* Protecting detainees who refuse to testify from legal sanctions or other court prejudices.
Note particular the piece on waterboarding. He's still going down that bunny hole, and if any of that is shown to have occurred with these 20 people (most likely the ones that it did occur with), it will be nothing more than show.
Yes, and he left the door open for some to possibly be transferred here and hold their trials. The kicker he has no clue where they would be detained awaiting their trials. Put’s the 80 million for a detention center right in the forefront of my mind.
It appears the Obama has discovered running for the office and actually doing the job are two different realities. How will the left react to this?
They will give him a pass, of course.
Watch for howling and gnashing of teeth, rending of garments and sackcloth and ashes from the Loony Left near you! It will be a hoot to watch the Left eat their own!
I guess that when reality hits that no one else in the world wants these people in their country, what do you do? If trials are restarting, what are the liberals wanting, these terrorists in U.S. courtrooms to be freed on a technicallity to turn around & sue the government for billions of dollars to further the cause of Islamic terrorists? People please use the brain that God gave you when HE created you! Islamic terrorist groups want us DEAD… Not to coexist and be at peace. Death to the infadels. They want the rest of us to either become islamic, or death to us. There is NO negotiating with them. Dialogue is not and option. Did they have second thoughts about crashing those planes into the towers? Did the planes vere off? No it was planned & deliberate!!! The government officials that are at the top now, realize that these people are still willing to die to kill U.S. citizens. If they were released & an attack came, it would not be a good day for our politicians.
Smoke and mirrors and complete ignorance of the Geneva convention, coupled with anger over just about every Bush foreign policy decision made some pretty bright people think these detainees could be tried in civil courts. They can't be. Right now, they say a handful will now be tried in tribunals, this number will go up, as it should. These are "tar babies" and if the current administration thinks they are more intelligent than the last one in dealing with this issue – they've already proven they are not. This is complex, and Gitmo and the tribunals were and still are necessary.
To criminalize the "battlefield" will set a precedent that will put all of our own armed forces at risk – and the ground they stand on is pretty shaky as it is.
What angers and puzzles me is that the howls of protest at this huge reversal from the vehemence stated on the compaign trail is miniscule.
What do we do before its too late? Day after day after day our protection is being dissolved and folks I know personally still have the attitude that everything will work out fine. Its either that or they agree something needs to be done but they don't want to initiate anything. Honestly I don't get it. Arrogance, apathy, ignorance?
lunarman, very good point. But I am not watching the news today, I am holed up in my redneck southern rural paradise, and I am unable to hear the enormous outcry from the libs that is surely happening out "there" where only enlightened people live.
Say what you mean…Mean what you say. This is the standard liberal "we will say what we need to get elected" Washington mentality. Funny thing is we all knew it was coming, what else can they do??
Really, what choice did he have? If he lets them go, he risks getting impeached if Americans are attacked because of his incompetence if even one goes back to work for jihadists.
He has no choice. Keep them as POWs at Gitmo until we are done fighting Islamic Terrorism.
Hey NancyNurse,
I doubt very seriously we will ever be done fighting Islamic Terrorism because the panty-waist leadership we have in Washington will only serve to embolden them.
Then I guess they keep our POWs forever and we keep theirs.
It's a game….Watch the left hand.
Why is there a celebrity in your left hand? Who is it can I see, can I, huh huh huh…
I say it constantly, watch the left hand, the right hand is the distraction.
No, that's what they want us to do. I'm going to watch both hands, starting with you.
I believe that's what the Israelis do. But they aren't POW's. As a humane society the only right they have is to humane treatment.
The Israelis have had their patience tried to the max. They have released many of their captives only to have them turn right around and have them involved again in terrorism. I can cite specifics, if you'd like.
To me, there is no such thing as a 'humane' society. Name one.
I do know, from hearing other's opinions that it would be peachy if all people would just stop fighting etc. etc. You are talking to an ex-hippie–I know all about the peace and love crap. But I also know from interviewing thousands of veterans in the past 6 years who were in extreme combat in Vietnam, that whenever you use deadly force anywhere, you are in war. And in war, there is only one rule. The law of the jungle—fight and live. Hesitate and die. Do whatever is necessary to survive. I am sure you watch some Animal Planet. That is the way it is…like the lions grabbing the little deer at the waterholes…… and there might not be anyway around it. I think our biology precludes 'humanity.' Too many human beings, too few resources… that results in—- famine, disease, violence and war. When population outstrips production, you will have nasty things happen, I don't care what kind of society you try to build.
And to me, our detainees are CERTAINLY POWs……they fight for a cause that is political and ideological in nature, they have identifiable leaders and are organized. They communicate and have an element of command and control. They have declared war on us, and by their actions (continuing to use terrorism against us and anyone allied with us or cooperating with us), they have not stopped.
As far as what is torture and what is not: Inflicting painful PERMANENT physical injury, scars, immobility. John McCain was tortured. These detainees were not. I scoff at that notion!
You are being used by politicians who flip and flop in the wind. I suggest that if our right to interrogate or even hold prisoners is so distasteful, you exit stage left to another country where your values are kept in better esteem. Good luck finding such a humane place.
Frankly, I am amazed that you would extend any rights to those who grab and hold journalists hostage, who maim school girls for seeking education, who tear people building their infrastructure into pieces while alive, behead people with no trial. These beasts do not deserve humanity. They deserve to be annihilated. And those of you who are not on board with that notion, are as bad as they are.
Nancy:
You misunderstand my position. Under the GC these people don't qualify as POW's. A POW has certain rights granted under the Treaty we signed. These people don't qualify for any of these rights.
I agree that war is not pretty. Things done on the battlefield to survive can be traumatic even to the ones that survive with no physical injuries.
Yes, man has done terrible things to his fellow man in the past and it still happens now; All over Africa and Radical Islamists in the middle east to name a few. But we, as humans, have the ability to control our animal instincts. Our society is not perfect but we do try. Our civilian prisoners are not mistreated as in 3/4 of the world. Our criminals are treated to the presumption of guilt before they tried. Unfortunately illegal aliens have been granted access to our courts before deportation. We do have laws to regulate our animal instincts. Us, the Europeans and Japan are probably as humane as it gets. If I understand you correctly the GC are BS and we should not take prisoners from the battlefield.
These people are not POW's. To be POW's they would be uniformed troops, there are other classifications of prisioners under the GC. Since their status under the GC is not clear they are supposed to be afforded the protections of the GC until a tribunal determines their status. Now, lets talk about torture. Look up the definition of torture in wikipedia. The last sentence is as follows. \”It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.\” President Bush declared waterboarding was a lawful sanction. Therefore waterboarding is not torture.
I have no idea how you got to the conclusion that I don't want these people held, tried or interrogated. I state again that I believe the only right they have is to humane treatment as any human has a right to. Madam you are talking to a veteran that was spit on in airports by hippies in the late 60's and early 70's. Sounds like you might have changed since those days of peace and love.
And for your information I'm being used by no one
— On Sat, 5/16/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
Be VERY careful where you put your hand I hear stupidity is contagious, especially in DC. Never touch a Pelosi, Frank, or Dodd without first donning latex gloves.