5/14/09: More Auto Industry Re-Structuring In The Works
Posted by the912project on May 13, 2009 · 101 Comments
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I am really curious to see how many of these dealerships are owned by Republicans.
— On Sat, 5/16/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
Lets's take a poll!! How many of you out there are ready to buy from Chrysler or GM right now. My vote?
NO
no.!! and Hell No.!!!
HELL NO!!!!!!!!!Go Ford
Good point. I second that. I don't want to hurt Americans but if the UAW is going to be the beneficiary of our tax dollars I will stay clear of their vehicles as well.
All day I have watched the auto dealers across the nation, report on the loss of their franchise. Some of these dealers sound surprised that they were cut because they were the dealers that showed some profit and were in the upper percentile for sales in their area.
Call me silly but after watching this I have to wonder what political party the majority of these dealers supported.
I have to wonder if the surviving dealers were "contributors" to any political party or if they were "registered" to any specific party.
If anyone out there was in this position and has some answers, please post them. I am really curious if there is a pattern to this.
Well Buchanan, republican F-13, is part owner for some dealerships in Sarasota. A few of those are on the list to be cut.
First the president takes over the Car Companies. Then I get to hear my prez telling the world that HE will be backing the power train warranty up to 250 K miles. Wow he should do commercials. Ho wait he IS controlling the commercials. But wait if he backs the warranty how will he pay for all the repairs. EASY he will just force the dealerships that are self sufficient and don’t cost the Car companies anything to close by saying we won’t renew your license. Now you are under warranty but the closest fix it shop is 200 miles away. I love it.
All this happening now to the auto industry is sad. I am retired from Chrysler and what was once a proud American company is being pushed around like garbage by the government. What happened to these companies that built America into a world leader in manufacturing? They got too big to remember where they came from. No longer building cars Americans wanted but what federal regulations mandated starting in the 70's. American consumers responded by buying foreign made cars and the big three did not respond to the challenge and are paying for it today. It is sad to see all the workers losing there jobs to this economy and I hope the new car companies emerging from this mess wake up and build what they did for Americans back when they did it for the customer! Oh by the way I hear that Fiat will build cars in 2010 in a couple of the closed Chrysler plants. Some good new to all this bad.
Not only are these dealership jobs gonig to be lost, but also the trucking companies that deliver the cars,parts etc fuel, office supply store, hardware store that supplies come from, …… All of these have a down hill effect. There are so many companies that depend on the core business to survive. The ripple effect is a huge Tidal Wave!
Wouldn't it be smarter to lower the corporate tax rate and to get rid of the unions. Think of how much money they would save. While we are at it, how about not letting congress force these companies to retool all the time. Just my thoughts.
Yes it would, but when you owe the unions for your election, along with the SEIU and ACORN, you have to give them what they want. Obama is a POS, period.
If they threw the unions under the bus where would they get all of their money needed to control American Politics????
How to grow a business…Advertise (Crysler has been forced to cut their advertising budget)…Distribute your product…(now Crysler and GM are closing dealerships…) Diversify…(GM is getting rid of several brands)…Make the best product you possibly can…( Chinese cars, need I say more?)…Make your company profitable…(the UAW will continue to suck these company's dry of any profit)…It would seem that they are headed in the wrong dirrection.
Just my opinion….but I kind of thought Glen expected this guy to side with him….and he didn't.
I don't know what that means but he had the same look I've had for years….sold my soul, gave you every last penny and now you ditch me…thought you were my friend and he looks me straight in the eyes and says "who?"
When do we get the new rule book? New dictionary? New plan of attack? We have followed, gave our lives for these people….and they look at us as if they have never seen us before. UP-DATE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
We have a PRESIDENT that says after a college bill per year that is more than the richest….volunteer….Frick YOU!!!!!!! I don't mortage my home. go into debt, commit suicide out of fear for not being able to re-pay this to VOLUNTEER!!!!!!!!!!!~~!!!!!!!!!!!~~!!!!!!!!!!
I hope as many of the dealerships closed by Obama run Chrysler are purchased by non-Union, private-sector run companies like Nissan, Toyota ect. This will prove to all but the most dense Obamatrons that PRIVATE SECTOR and CAPITALISM create jobs, growth and opportunites and Government only destroys jobs and creates dependency.
Of course – Al Gore should get the first off the assembly line.
lol, yeah ford could ruin everything for them. Remember ford didn't concede to FDR's new deal either. I like ford, they never made the fastest or prettiest cars but they're always dependable.
Remember the '60s? When the manufacturers were battling it out on the racetracks? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but Ford was on top in most forms of automobile racing back then. It was Fords 427 SOHC motor that was the answer to Chrysler's 426 Hemi, the Hemi, after introduction was all but unbeatable , but when Ford tested it's 427 in a '64 Galaxy at Daytona and ran 3 mph faster on the first lap, not even pushing the motor, the Chrysler boys were crying rivers to NASCAR, so it was ultimately banned, and never raced. You are so right about Ford not conceding to FDR's new deal, and Ford employees have made tough concessions to help Ford stay out of the bailout. Since Ford doesn't have any commitment to the govt., Obama & Co.cannot mandate to them what types of automobiles to build, "green cars" could well be what the govt. mandates GM and Chrysler to build exclusively, but Ford can build what the consumers want, throwing the proverbial "monkeywrench" into the govt's total domination of the automobile industry.
I'm no mech and I'm not a racing history buff but I'm sure your right. I do know the 427 was a hell of a motor. My experience with the big 3 has been involved with pulling livestock. And this is what I've seen. When I was younger you had to have a big block to get the job done. Plus on ranches we spend most of our time offroad. So for us the big test is power and durability and dependability. Chevy 454. The 454 was awsome. Chevys rode great. But the bodies never held up. Also it seemed like 50% were lemons. Dodge i think had the 440 I only was around a couple. Great power would climb up the side of a hill. They rode so rough they tore temselves apart. Ford. 460 didn't pull as good as the 454 but pretty darn close, didn't ride as smooth as a chevy but it wasn't anywhere near as miserable as dodge. Bodies held up excellent, plus they were dependable. When diesels came out ford smoked chevy then dodge had the cummins everybody loved the motor but the trucks still rode to rough so ford won on that end to. I always wished ford could have got cummins to make thier motors. But my experience with ford has been nothing but positive.
I got an idea for a car that runs off the blood of polar bears does anybody know who I can give it to??
You want to restructure the auto industry???? 2 things
1. Drill, drill, then drill some more.
2. eliminate the unions
This is going to be fun to watch. The facist Obama admin just basically eradicated contract law by subordinating senior debt to more junior and unsecured debt holders with help from the TARP banks (his new Govt sponsored entities) and they basically gave Chrysler to a foreign company and gave a controlling interest of 55% to the UAW. So now the UAW was saved and given more equity in a company but had a smaller debt than other debt holders.
How do you suppose the UAW will run this company? I suppose we will continually be on the hook for continuous infusions of cash even when it comes out of bankruptcy.
good point I've been wondering about that myself but didn't know all the details. I wonder if they will treat thier employees as good if they're responsible for making a product?
Is it just me, or could the feds have bought everyone over the age of 18 their choice of one Ford, GM, or Dodge car? Just one car…….that's all, and it would have cost much less.
That would have been too logical…. besides, someone who makes over $20,000 a year might have benefited…. can't have that…. they pay all the taxes!
Something else to ponder in this so-called restructuring (and will stillend up in bankruptcy court) is the plan by GM to sell Chinese cars. Bewilderment mulitplied by outrage on my part.
How does reducing domestic production and essentially exporting these jobs, and turn around and sell a competitors car count as meaningful restructuring? They may have reduced expenses, but they also are ditching the very thing that can bring them back to life.
I think i want those "loans" the administration gave these idiots back – now.
Time to start Victory Gardens again and use the barter system as much as possible…As the dollar becomes worth less and less, good old American know-how will get the job done..We can only be pushed so far..I live in a community of 17,000 and there isn't much that can't be accomplished through trading and helplng each other..Under the sort of economic pressure that has been put on us more and more the people will come together.
We may well see the American people at their best.
I like this!
I hope you are right. I never thought our country would devolve into a socialist country, but it has and it has been very rapid.
Obama Failed Jobs Policies: BO firing Rick Wagoner as president of GM and threatening the stock holders of Chrysler with dire consequences if they did not revalue their equity holdings were the first sign that the Fed meant to nationalize all business in the U.S.
Mr. Gov’tWrench also threatened massive new taxes on any corporation who move overseas. He might as well tax them all because that is where they are heading as fast as they can liquidate here in the U.S. and restructure outside of this country.
Lawyers should ne required to take a business course in law school where they can find out how capitalism works.
Speaking of States Rights, as I always am, wouldn’t it be nice if States could all adopt manufacturing practices like the State of Montana has and keep Federal influence outside of state boundaries.
Montana is going to manufacture its own guns and ammunition, and claim states rights that they have complete control over gun rights. Why can’t car companies pick a right to work state and do the same thing?
For an car company, a position like Montana's may only be taken if the cars and all parts are manufactured within the state and the end product, the car, remains in the state. It is a great idea, and likely every state has something the gov't is regulating that it shouldn't. It certainly would be a powerful move in the right direction if Ford were able pull something like this off.
Banks are still not loaning to buy a new car. Now dealerships are closing. Those dealerships which are closing are considered commercial real estate (CRE). We’ve already seen what happened when people did not make the mortgage payments on their homes, (i.e. all of the derivatives/securities associated with them). I’ll wager that there are derivatives/securities on those CRE mortgages/loans just as there were on residential real estate mortgages/loans. Look for another bail-out of the financial institutions soon. I hope I am wrong…
It was my understanding that commercial real estate is the next bursting bubble, just like the housing market.
We live in VERY interesting times!
In the car manufacturing business, this seems to be the best way Obama knows how to fix the business, by pressuring the manufactures to cut thousands of jobs. The dealerships mentioned will cut in excess of 200,000 jobs, as they close forever, never to come back again, and of course less people to pay the horrid new taxes Obama wants to create!
My friend's husband and sons work in a dealership. They tried everything they could to make a go of it, shutting down part of it, not depending on the government, but family for money.
NOW THIS! Closing dealerships . . .
Just because these good folks aren't in the plants, they might lose it all! Just because they don't work for squirrel nuts or S-e-i-C, they may lose a family franchise?
God help these good people! Have mercy!
Hear Hear! God bless them and keep them…and us!
Restructuring plans driven by the Feds??? The main difference between those that support this idea–and those with common sense, is the common sense crowd realizes this is a horrible idea. Example being: The automobile industry is as much about practicality as it is about fashion; and the demand drives the need for supply. I can no sooner see myself driving a Prius, as would the Liberal from the inner city be seen driving an "American made" car. My point is, just because you build it; doesn't mean people will buy it.
Executive pay controls – ya right – All the new execs at the new Chrysler are going to be Fiat badged. Outside of BHO controls. Thank you sir may I have another!
RB60, Ford has graciously (and I think brilliantly) evaded the TRAP funds! They need our support! The reality is that the gov't doesn't care if it makes a profit in the auto business (no matter what BH0 says), but Ford does! We must put our money and support where our mouth (keyboard) is!
I was recently called back to work, and we have some large orders coming up in a month or two. When I save up enough to buy a new car, I'm hopefully going to purchase a new Mustang GT.
Thumbs up! And that's really nice wheels ya got your eye there! Good luck, and may the gov't stay out of your business!
The President has said that he doesn't want to run auto companies. Actions speak louder than words, Mr. President. I wonder if anyone on his staff understands that. Obviously not.
He always says one thing and does another. He is already running car companies. Just the other day he told Chrysler to slash its advertising budget in half.
I'm still trying to figure out where the Obama administration is saving or creating all the jobs. Was he talking about saving or creating them here? Or was he talking about saving or creating them in some third world country (Mexico or China)?
I think he meant every country that sent him campaign donations.
Until they can give us a nice vehicle with good gas mileage and comfortable ride, they will probably still be in the red.
Only a well trained Community Activist could dream up such a stupid plan. It is kind of like any fast food franchise when they stop earning a profit because the are no longer providing the service people will pay for what do they do, cut costs by firing employees. If GM and Chrysler can not sell cars it makes no difference how well or inexpensively built they are. Would not any sensible company or government look at ways to cut the cost of manufacture (shut down the unions) instead of depleting it's sell outlets by 33%. Stupid is as stupid does.
Two thoughts:
1) I thought "the One" said he (all praise to Obama) was going to "create or save" 100's of thousands of jobs
with all that "stimulus" money he stole from us.
How's that working out?
2) Since no one will buy the crap GM and Chrysler make (more likely import), "the One" could save even more of
his (our) money by closing down even MORE dealers and laying off MORE auto workers. Then they can be in
line for unemployment with all those suppliers that will be going out of business.
Are there any koolaid drinkers out there who still think Obama is the end-all and be-all? I have a feeling that there are fewer supporters today than yesterday and that those numbers will continue to dwindle as the sheeple finally see the light!
Hey Gettlefinger…still think it was a good idea to support that moron for president?
It was a good deal for Gettlefinger he is getting his millions upon millions of tax payers money. The ones getting screwed are the auto workers for supporting their criminal infested Union & not throwing it out on it's sorry a55 sure hope they are happy with all the cool-aid they drank. All I can say is you reap just what you sow & the auto union have sown hate & discontent for decades now they are reaping what they deserve. They should have woke up many many years ago
Double post – check out the job losses and what it will take to get to that 3.5 million created or saved mark
http://understandingthemarket.com/?p=63
So much for saving or creatig 3.5 million jobs!
What is…bewilderingly stupid is that me, someone who has a passing knowledge of economics has understood from the beginning that GM is going to have to go into bankruptcy to survive. The June 1 deadline was a line thrown out there as a meaningless benchmark. They could cut even more costs, but their products are not selling. The consumer has already made a decision. I think it's the height of arrogance on the Administrations part to think this is going to go any other way.
These dealerships in terms of employees dwarf those that work at the plants produing these cars. If they aren't unionized, will we hear howls, special law breaking contractual deals made for them as was done for the UAW in Chrslyer?
You will have 2 choices in a few years…Ride the bus or walk. Unless you can pay for 10.00 a gallon gas and 50K for a roller skate car…
The Federal Government has to control us through not allowing us to travel easily…Its coming to a neighborhood near you. And the rural people will be forced back into the city to survive…
I bet they'll be a tax on that too.
"If you drive a car I'll tax the street, if you try to sit I'll tax your seat, If you take a walk I'll tax your feet"
Taxman-George Harrison
Unfortunately or fortunately, the rural people are the only ones who will survive. They can grow their own food.
I live in a rural area……and believe me, I love my fruits and vegies. However we all share, if you live by us we help alot of people. We do alot of trading too…….5 squash for venison. : )
Not that many people know how to grow their own and what good will that do if the food can't be canned or frozen and will freeze during the winter? Might get us by for a while, but not that long.
Not me. That's too much like work. I'm moving to Dryland!! (Waterworld)
You are absolutely right! That is exactly what is at play here. And when suburbia and rural America 'moves uptown' they can collectivize all farming, food production, etc. So much the better to control you with, my dear.
I'll bet Obama & Co. are fuming they haven't gained control of Ford!!
Oh, but they have. Their goal is to have the unions control both Chrysler and GM. When that is completed the UAW will have the clout to completely tank Ford.
I was reading a little history..from what I gather the same thing happened to Ford in the great depression. Ford stepped away from Government control and the rest profited from Gov contracts. Because Ford would'nt play ball they were shunned from any Gov projects. I thank Ford for both times they said no to gov control and will continue to supprt them!
Ah the $ ocial way, Throw billions of dollars at the UAW, I mean the Auto cos. They can't fail, you mean the unions can't fail. Chrysler goes into bankruptacy, the union gets .55 on the dollar, American people gets to dump more money into the Co. Now GM, gee more money lost, They are going to get rid of dealers, the UAW keeps going, gathering more money from the American people. Hey BH0, why not throw money into S ocial Security or Medicare, or let us keep our own money. When did the Constitution make you or the government CEO of the auto cos? BH0, how about using the money that your paying all your Czars to bailout the American people, after all if we don't have the money to by things, then, what good is the bailouts? Wasn't America great?
I'd like to see the part of the Constitution where the federal government has the power to do whatever it pleases as well. In fact, the Constitution was writtren to LIMIT the power of the government. Everything the founding fathers feared is coming to pass…
Unfortunately WE THE PEOPLE allowed this crap to happen by sitting on the side lines not saying anything or acting in any fashion to stop the destruction of our constitution. We were the biggest problem lets just hope we are finally awake & have decided it is time to act,
\”Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.\”..Thomas Jefferson
As Ford struggles to keep its head above gov't bailout, the people who fund the gov't, thru the confiscatory tax system are duped into supporting their competition. The same with the banks that did not need the TRAP funds (intentional typo). Ford and the non-TRAP banks need the support of the American people. We should all let them know that we are striving to protect their back while the gov't is stabbing it.
They are already talking about capping the pay and benefits of th bank execs, even if they didn't receive bailout money. Give them time, they'll have the UAW in charge of ford. By the way, if people think I have an intense hatred of the UAW, you're right. We have 2 Ford plants here, and its really p+++es me off to see the UAW flag flying above the POW/MIA Flag on the flag pole. They have the Stars and Stripes, UAW Flag and then the POW/MIA flag. It tells you prioties.
"why not throw money into S ocial Security or Medicare, or let us keep our own money."??
There are no unions in medicare of soshul secutiry.
Because that would make sense, and not pay back the unions and all the special interests that got BH0 elected.
We will not be bailed out. The plan is for the democratic party to utterly bankrupt us and only then come to our "financial rescue". Interesting how "the party" only acts in their own self interest.
I wonder what Obama crossed when he swore to "support and defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic? And where is that legitimate birth cert?
The Dems want the power to control everybody's life and putting people on the dole to remain in power. \”Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.\”….Joseph Stalin
Just change the word in the quotefrom \”ideas\” to \”freedom\”and you have BH0 and the rest of his regime's plan for America.
The $ocialist plan takes affect, lets throw billions of dollars at the UAW, I mean the auto cos., yet they are going into bankruptcy, moving plants and "laying" off dealers, gee, yet the UAW goes merrily along getting concessions, maybe losing a few pennies on the dollar, and unemployment goes up. Workers Unite! Change is coming, the American way of life is going to be destroyed and the unions and a select few groups will be getting the rewards of other peoples hardwork. America will be broke and the government will control everything. Wasn't America Great!
How can the President of the United States fire CEO's of companies, decide how much money they will use in adveritising and give 50% of a company to the Union. Is it time to pass the jam…are we toast yet
Because we have allowed him to do it. Instead of marching on DC demanding people step down for the crimes they are & have perpetuated against the Constitution & the American people.
Amen, we have allowed this but most of us dont know how to go about this.
Why, because he (All praise the almighty Obama) is "THE ONE", you silly goose!
The original reason we heard that we had to bail out the automakers since the job impact was huge, not only directly but on sub suppliers and on its dealers. Well, after spending a huge amount of money, and after Obama fired the CEO of GM, an unheard of move for any other president, the system is now crumbling worse than anyone ever imagined. Work, jobs and money are going overseas. Dealers in our home towns are getting cut off with no assistance. Our bailout money might as well have been thrown in a sewer. After all of the fiddling, after all of the money, after all of the promises, why isn't this billed as one of the worst disasters by a presidents meddling ever?
It won't matter what anyone says. Obama will force them to do what he wants anyway, regardless of the consequences.
Lets see if I got this right….We give them money to keep them from going under to keep the economy from tanking. Using the "Too big to fail" routeen. They fail anyway then say they are going to close plants, dealers and anything else they can. Oh and I almost forgot Move a lot of jobs to Mexico!
I have to hand it to you Mr. President that was one hell of a plan did you think that all up by yourself or did the Speaker of no lie…I mean the House help you. Can you tell us You remember us THE PEOPLE YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO WORK FOR, how this helps the AMERICAN economy? I see how it helps Mexico and How you really put me off ever buying a Chrysler product.
If GM does the same Than I will only buy a Ford. How much did you sucker the American's for again?
Once the UAW is in control of GM and Chrysler, then Ford will be next.
I say we all buy foreign cars to kill the UAW, since they have already taken billions of our tax dollars.
Remember that there are "foreign" cars built here, in the South, with reasonable labor. Buy them! I must admit, I don't know which auto companies there are, but I bet someone on this forum can tell us. I know the companies are foreign owned, but with American labor doing the work, it's better than supporting companies building cars in foreign countries and exporting them to us. No more Chrysler or GM for me until and unless the government is OUT of their business.
Well, isn't that encouraging news. NOT. Another possible 200,000 jobs lost if this happens. That doesn't include the jobs that will be lost at affiliated companies like those that furnish supplies to these dealerships for their service departments, office supplies and then, there are the agencies and banks that provide financing for dealership customers. It just goes on and on. Everything the government tries to run just results in a bigger mess. I hope the dealers do bring a lawsuit. Especially since there are some state rights that may be infringed on in all this.
I hope that the lawsuits are for individuals unstead of the Gov
True, but rural people tend to be closer to self-sufficient than city people. Most city folk don't know how to butcher an animal or be self sufficient.
I've live in the country all of my life and the closest thing I ever got to butchering an animal was in my biology classes.
That is really disgusting. Are there no veterans who work at these plants to raise an objection? It is scary to see the UAW this powerful. I mean, we know they are, but this is an insult to the POWs/MIAs who fought, were imprisoned by the enemy and died for the UAW's (along with everyone elses's) freedoms. Check e-mail.
You don't fight the union, as people are going to find out when card check gets passed.
How does your local VFW or Legion feel about this?
I haven't heard anyprotest about it, even though it has been brought up.
Needs to be brought up again. Ford needs to get on the side of the people, and I'll help push.
Just a thought, but what if the States said FU, we're not going to listen to the Feds on a lot of this stuff and simply ignored them, citing the 10th Amendment. Not a lawyer, just typing like one! I don't think the Feds could fight 20, 30, 40 or more states on several issues each! A quiet revolution. A "civil" civil war.
We'd need 34 states (2/3), I believe, to call a Constitutional Convention. If at least 34 states could get their legislature behind the people, using something (and I'm sure every state has something) that is created within that state, and used within that state, they could enact legistation similar to Montana's. There is an arm of the gov't regulating nearly everything, and we need to think outside the box. It is no easy thing to get rid of a gov't bureaucracy. Reagan said '..a gov't bureau is the closest thing to eternal life we will see on earth.'
Ilost the thread, if it is about the POW?Mia flag, I went by yhe plant today, the parking lot is empty, but the POW/MIA flag is in its proper place.
Good., and it was re the POW/MIA flag.
Another good one!!
Its been a long day!
I know very little about the heavy duty trucks from any manufacturer, and I sure wouldn't argue with someone with experience.I have heard the Cummins is a good powerplant. I've been a die-hard Ford man since I was a kid, when my dad had a '57 Crown Victoria. The closest thing I had to a truck was a '73 Ranchero, 351 Cleveland 4V with a top loader 4 speed. I have had numerous hi-performance Ford cars through the years and spent some time at the drag races. I built a hot rod in the early '80s, but a divorce forced me to sell it. Someday I would like to get another Mustang, possibly a new GT, but time will tell.
Here too