4/18/09: If GM’s Bankrupcy Is “Probable”, Shouldn’t We Get On With It?
Posted by the912project on April 18, 2009 · 88 Comments
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88 Responses to “4/18/09: If GM’s Bankrupcy Is “Probable”, Shouldn’t We Get On With It?”The Restoring Honor Rally August 28, 2010
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I live in Mi and the loss of the auto industry will be disastrous to a state already on life support. That being said There really is no other way for the auto industry to right itself. All the billions given are lost and the is no point in throwing bad money after worse. No more bailouts! Let them reorganize under bankruptcy protection laws and come out leaner and meaner. We need industrial capacity in America but not government run industry.
Before General Motors had to deal with government placing endless numbers of mandates and bans on their products, they built quality vehicles that people wanted to buy and could afford to buy.
Great!!!! Car manufacturing another Goverment Bureaucracy gone wrong. What next government run Great Clips?
Yes, so they can restructure their agreements with the greedy, one-sided unions and get rid of some of those ridiculous legacy costs. The stupid thing is that bankruptcy was not done in the first place. They always give the excuse that the word bankruptcy will drive customers off. What has been happening for years now?
Well, we could all just NOT buy American: go Toyota or something else. I don't want to pay for the UAW's healthcare and pension. And I will not ever buy American, not until their costs come down, the quality goes up, and I don't pay for their doctor visits.
So if GM goes bankrupt, are they absolved of the bailout loan money they owe, and the connected government strings attached to said bailout?
Absolutely not. In fact, I would wager that the second the chapter 11 paperwork is signed, the government will take them over not unlike Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This has nothing to do with profits, or jobs … it's all about power. Obama wants to nationalize the auto industry, the health industry, the energy industry … everything.
Why? To control us of course; once he controls how and what we drive, how much energy we can receive, and whether or not we will receive health care … he owns us. Liberty will be a faded memory that we’ll tell our grandchildren about (if the government allows us to even live that long that is).
My – MY Looks like Chris Dodd will have a tough election soon.
Obama announced he would support Dodd for another term. Wonder why???
Sounds like "term limits" are in order for government officials. Even Appointments.
Appointing anyone for LIFE to anything, really concerns me.
Yes, Obama said he was going to offer full support for Dodd because he is going through a "bad patch" right now. Bad patch….my Texas bottom! Obama has in place exactly the right people for his future focus; elected thieves and bandits…he'll be able to learn even more how to take from us and give to others without bothering with "new" officials who may not play along. Dodd and Frank should be in jail. They are incompetent and full blown liars and take sweetheart deals. We need new people in there!
We all need to email Chris Dodd and tell him goodbye.
.
To all those around the world complaining about these economic times:
Do you now see how that 8 years of Bush bashing, seemingly endless USA bashing, unwarranted capitalism bashing and blaming the USA for everything under the sun has worked out?
It wasn't such a good idea to do those things after all, eh?
This and many other issues that occupy our time could be a "diversion" authored by Obama.
DIVERSION is a standard Military Procedure. Maybe we should all be aware of what is behind the daily news.
<a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXqj9epGEas” target=”_blank”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXqj9epGEas
Notice that Obama has 7 "czars". Whomever is pulling the strings wants control of key industries. The U.S. is the military might of the Western world and losing GM would hurt that. Part of GM's capabilities is all the feeder industries. So the government will wait until these industries come forward as well with their hands out. They haven't all figured out what is going to happen to them in a GM bankruptcy. Plus, when you wait to actually do what you say you will do, you gain leverage in other areas. But those other areas don't present themselves right away. You wait until you collect all your leverage with people so you can reap more concessions nd gain more control.
Of course when this is all over, the government will control banks, the auto industry or most of it, energy policy through taxes like cap and trade, food supply, water supply. Just look where all the legislation is going…. control, control, control. Spending now will be taxes later. More control. The government is taking advantage of a naive public that would sell its freedom for a food stamp or a tax rebate now, but ignoring the huge tax hike that will come later.
But most of those recalls seem to be targeting Ford products—like the tire recall. But they have always fixed what ever needed fixed and I am still driving a 1998 Ford SUV and it still runs and drives like brand new, despite having about 200,000 miles on it.
Me, too. I have had many FORDS and they've been good. I'd love to see their 100k mile warranty come back, they'd bury the remaining auto manufacturers!
I am looking at this issue from a completely different angle than simply the consumer and labor end. I am looking at the investment end. If (and I say again IF) I had a million dollars or so simply lying around and wanted to invest when dividends are at a remarkable low in anticipation for the price to go up, I am given 'heads up' or some kind of an insider's knowledge of what is about to happen since our government is being so doggone 'transparent.' It seems to me that this stall is being allowed to give some lucrative investors time to place their wagers, even knowing what will, what MUST come out of the bankruptcy proceedings. People are watching the big investors for a signal, perhaps because some are so in bed with and even helped to create this executive branch that is now acting as CEO and pull the strings (the puppet and the purse strings). Soros leaps immediately to mind, as does Buffet, even Gates. they have every angle covered and have removed the human unpredictable element in our government so that they can 'clean up' either way they hedge their bets. They are pre-determining the outcomes by their meddling in our political process as much as Haliburton's connections with the Bush administration may have been alleged, too, when they played fast and loose with the oil markets. All of them disgust me.
I think whatever rules they have in Vegas at the roulette table should apply to the capital markets–you cannot bet against yourself.
GM has produced some good quality cars and I hope they can find a way to stay in buisiness. Their electric car looked like something with a lot of potential. However, I heard their current union contract allows the union to dictate what kind and how many cars are made. Now the government wants to "help" and dictate that "green" cars are manufactured. Of course the management would like to control their own company and run it as a private industry. I don't see how having "too many cooks" would ever work out. Now the government will give a tax break for an electric car purchase but the cap and trade system will skyrocket the price of electricity. This is total insanity and will not well for the taxpayer.
I find it odd the GM and Chrysler are facing bankruptcy however Ford doesn't seem to have a problem. Hmmm. Do you suppose it could be due to their hugh plant in Brazil??
I agree, Mr. freemanredneck guy. I don't get what the problem was before the bailouts – if you need to claim bankruptcy, that's what you need to do. Not soak the American people for Billions and THEN decide there isn't anything there.
I'm wonder around what year it become common practice to finance a car.
I don't have a clue. I am a Grand parent but I still have kids in middle school.
But I would imagine some time durring FDR.
Oh I'm sorry
After reading the article, I don't see change in their product lines, so what am I not reading? How does GM drive down the cost of it's automobiles and make themselves competitive? If the UAW is unwilling to also drive down it's workers benefits, we're right back to where we were last year at the beginning of the bail out season.
I belive that the Obama administration is going to partner in the collective bargaining with UAW. The only way that GM can reduce it's costs (wage reductions for executives aside, it's a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things folks – go look it up) is to reduce it's entitlements.
Uncle Sam will be paying for or subsidize the health care of these workers.
Also, the pension plans for retired workers is on shaky ground – why wouldnt Uncle Sam pick that up too?
I'm no crystal ball reader, but all those tea bags really can get pretty familiar. GM will go bankrupt, and the court and the govt will use it to make GM profitable again -with tax payer subsidized health care and pension plans. How else do you "spread the wealth" around?
As long as the government has their hand in GM, their future is unsure. I'm waiting to buy. If they go into bankruptcy, then I'm way more sure they will survive, and would then buy a new GM. Labor unions that once served a needed service, now use their power to drive the cost up to where the 'free market' will not support the product.
The only industry that has survived with the legacy costs that they have is the Federal Government. Maybe that's why they are so driven to artificially propup a doomed model.
I believe G.M. was given "bailout money" to "postpone" their inevitable bankruptcy. Because of the banking collapse, with "toxic" mortgage liabilities, (caused by Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac)' the collapse of the auto industry at the exact same time would have caused a possible total collapse of our economic system. The world economy would have taken the "dive" right along with us and still might. Google the "history of Fannie Mae" and after reading that you will see why the govt. dumped money into the banks both here and abroad, Foreign interests were heavily invested into Fannie Mae. By postponing the bankruptcy, the government is able to pour money into the banking system cushining the impact of the collapse. I believe they are praying that this works. If it doesn't, you can imagine the consequences. Yes, we should get on with the bankruptcy, no more bailout bucks for a product that no one can afford to buy. The only way they will be able to pay this money back would be to increase prices to the consumer.
We need to understand not only when these events occurred in historical context, but analyze just who may have profitted greatly. A certain investor well known for his hedge funds seems to be the logical choice of needing full investigation. He has written a book recently about this downturn on the economy and urge all of you to read it and pick it apart as I have. GS's book is a loud brag about how he has completely gamed the system and will continue to manipulate world markets and rake it all in no matter what happens or who wins. He is the equivalent of a war profiteer, no doubt about it. Him, PL, WB, and various others are players who have stacked the deck against the American people's currency and our political system. He and these others have heavily influenced everything. I say, get smart! INvestigate him! Expose him! Strip him of his wealth! and then escort this 'gentleman' back to the land of his birth with a one-way ticket. He is no friend to our system or our people. Please read between the lines at the abbreviations. Apparently, I cannot post their names.
Really.! As early as 2003, the SEC found accounting discrepancies in Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and the official website speaks of a tremendous deficit. GWB brought this to the attention of congress, to no avail.
I understand to a degree, why GWB did nothing about this collapse as his time in office was 1-3 more months. General Motors dollars were simply enough to get them to this point, no further.
I'm like you, our legislators need to investigate this. A private unbiased investigation would be ideal but I don't think that will ever happen. I do believe heads should roll, careers terminated and guilty prosecuted, regardles of who they are or how big they are. By the way NancyNurse, you've got your s–t together.!!!
The Unions in this country are as out of control as our new administration. They should have gone into brankrupcy so their terms could have been realigned from the get go.
You hit that nail on the head. I was "union" most of my life and even back in the 1970's I could see that my union was "pricing themselves (us), right out of a job". Used to have 5 employees on a train. That number is down to 2 and the railroads are trying to go to 1. The auto unions have done the same thing which explains the robotics within the industry. The consumer should have "tumbled" to the fact that the industry was in trouble when they could not afford to purchase the vehicle and the dealer was pushing the "lease". This lead the public into believing that they needed to trade autos every two years. What a great ploy……..the consumer is now paying for a vehicle for as long as they are alive.
Hopefully the American public isn't so blind, not to see just how stupid this all is.
And see that Ford has its share of problems as well.
And then see the difference between having government intervention / takeover,
and true business ingenuity and perseverance.
The CEOs are bowing to gov't. Let's put pressure on them as well. As we all know, thay have plenty of pull in DC. I just signed a petiton by Dr. Borelli. He has been on Glenn's and Bob's shows a few times about GE. He is going to Orlando on the 22nd to their shareholder's meeting to pound them about their policies. Sign it: http://ge.signourletter.com
Thanks Done,
Well, now that the unions have got their money there is nothing left for the company to save itself. I smell something that stinks to high heaven. Will someone tell me why we gave them billions if they are filling bankrupcy anyway.
Somebody had to pay for the union vote: )
Yes, President Wimpy Chia Pet had to pay off his UNION backers which he has done. I HOPE Sure do not need him throwing more money at an industry to big to fail when now they say it is going to fail any way. B illions down the UNION SUCK HOLE
GM has been a poorly run company with (way too many) poor quality products for far too many years. We have tremendous technologies and capabilities here in the US. Everything we build should be better or at least equal. Just look at what we have in our Military. It can be done and done with pride. It was time to let them go way back at the first bailout. Not even a plan they had.
Not everything in the military is as awsome as the tv makes it look.
Time to sell any remaining GM Stock!
we always talk about unions and cafe standard and yes the is definantly a problem but we're forgetting something that is at the root of a lot of these issues its to easy to sue people in this country. Everytime some little thing goes wrong with one of these cars they get recalled and the companies lose millions of dollars.
In times like these I believe you need to simplify and go back to basics. Ford began the assembly line and made cars affordable to not only the avg. american but to the poor working class. Thats what really made our auto industry take off. I consider myself as poor working class under $30,000 a year. I own 3 american made vehicles all off which I bought used. Even though I have american vehicles the ford and chevy did not make any money from me purchasing those vehicles. They need to make cars affordable to everyone and without credit. Everybody my age can remember our grandparents saying they never bought a car on time when they were young and some people on here can probably remember those days. The first time somebody bought a car on time in my mind marks the begining of the end for the big 3
I am in the same boat, and I agree with you 100%. Cash on the barrel.
NOw a car costs as much as a house the only difference is a house goes up in price a car goes down in price. I would rather buy a house than a car.
The way things are going, you may want to wait on both.
They will flush a little more bailout money down the toilet, then peeeeeeel that bandaid off slow and painfull…
I will never buy a GM vehicle again, every one that I have had was junk! I especially wouldn't buy one now that the gov't is backing the warranties…imagine all the red tape you'll have to go through to get your car fixed! FORD all the way!!
You know chevy was always that way. I got a 94 with 6.5 diesel that is awsome, but I've been around a lot of those same trucks that were total junk. Most ranches buy fords and they all kinda run the same except for the V10s. But yeah I think GM did this to themselves. This could be a good lesson for the unions too. Be careful what you ask for…. You just might get it, and then in 30 years when more of you are being payed for not working you'll all be unemployed and no pension.
Let me get this right, their going bankrupt after we bailed them out with our hard earned dollars. They just sold your grandchildrens future and I would like to see someone besides me an a few others get out there and do something anything,please don't sit there, get mad, write, call, picket, join grass root orgs.. America is not a socialist nation but the camel is getting it's nose under the tent and we are letting it.
OK the goverment stepped into save GM from filling Bankruptcy just to turn around and fire the CEO and force GM into bankruptcy?? This was not about of helping GM out but to take control over GM forcing their well over our auto industry.
The federal goverment has oversteped their bounds and needs to gaven a wake up call. More Tea Partys… combine into bigger groups and lock DC down we are comming their to show you we have the numbers and we well not be let our voice's be silanced in the dark no more!
And we will never see our tax dollars that went to them ever again
This is very true, I have a hard time believing we will get any back, let alone all of it.
The American people for the most part do not want motorized roller skates to transport their families. We want the trucks, and SUVs, and comfortable cars. GM should have filed for bankruptcy months ago. that's the capitalist system. Even if it doesn't re-emerge, something else will. Unions and CEO are a big part of the problem, but government imposed standards are the biggest obstruction to any auto maker's growth and success. So my prediction is that if it goes into bankruptcy and emerges without unions and that high executive pay that Washington can't stand (except for themselves), the government will force them to make more of the 'green cars' which will cost so much that the 'middle class' will be unable to afford them. I'm afraid that American automakers are in a lose now or lose later situation. GM and Ford and Chrysler are all American icons – and have been so very important in our nations growth. They will only survive if gov't gets out of the way. And this gov't won't.
"government imposed standards are the biggest obstruction to any auto maker's growth and success."
Jerseygal, you are spot on. We consumers would love to buy well made cars built in the USA, but government burdens our producers with rule upon rule standards, mazes that lead to nowhere. Government's Saviour complex stifles wise creativity that serves consumers needs.
Result: cars too tiny for a family, cars that flunk crash standards, cars that use fuels that create more pollution than natural petroleum. Go figure!
It is quite clear, both of you understand the problem with regulatory intrusion into the private sector. The challenge before us all–is to, educate those who have been conditioned to hearing distortions of the truth.
GM should have declared bankruptcy long ago. No different then the airlines, they need to re-organize and cut salaries.
No we must give them another $5 Billion first and then let them file bankrupcy. That will make $18 Billion we the taxpayers stand to lose if they can't emerge from Chapter 11 and the Union will not give them slack to do that.
Just get it over with. What the hell are they waiting for? It will NOT turn around until the legacy costs are taken care of by filing bankruptcy. Which was what many have been saying when this whole mess began. The government CAN'T save a private business. They can't even balance their own budget, what makes you think they can balance GM or any other business?
Yes, we should get on with the bankruptcy of GM, and Chrysler for that matter. It's time the greedy " UAW union members" live in the real world.
They keep "threatening" to file bankruptcy but it's almost as if a child threatening it's parents…well, if the American taxpayers are the "parents" we say GO ahead it's not going to hurt ME! And let them do it. No biggie. The government should never have gotten involved in the first place. I was never for TARP to begin with or the bailout of the big three. Involvement in private business is NOT the function of our government. At least it wasn't. And, when we BOOT this administration out of office in oh, three and 3/4 years….it won't be anymore, either.
I say the fact that Goldman Sachs and Wells Fargo made such healthy profits the past few months, means that the banks didn't need a bailout in the first place.
GM wont be allowed to go into a normal bankruptcy. They will make a new special bankruptcy just for them. All this will do is take a non partisan judge out of the picture and put political appointees in the process. Obama will not allow the unions to take a major hit with the bankruptcy. A judge would throw out all contracts including most legacy costs and then reorganize, politicians will strongly protect and favor the unions!
Governments' intrusion into private sector almost never produces positive results. In this case it is only delayed the inevitable. This was however done by design at our expense. I couldn't be more pissed off at the lames in our government.
Absolutely we should just get on with it. That should have been what was done way before "bailout" became Washington's favorite word. GM simply has a failed business model, and the greatest thing about a bankruptcy filing would be the rewriting of Union contracts. At some point, the Union is simply going to have to take some punches and admit some fault. It should say something to us all when the Union's books are fine, but GM's are a mess. The sooner GM files bankruptcy, the sooner they will get back on their feet. Dragging it on is only causing more bills and more mess.
I've owned GM since I started driving and I've been saying from the start they should file bankruptcy. They are not going to disappear just cause they are filing for bankruptcy. This gives them the option to lower alot of their costs and re-negotiate their labor contracts. In the long run this will make GM more of a power in the automobile industry when they are able to get their labor costs down and are able to sell their vehicles cheaper.
Ya know…most of us "ordinary" Americans saw this coming before GM got ANY money. Yeah, in between clinging to our Bibles and guns we do read the news. We do grasp the basics of economics. After all, WE are tasked with living within our means — unlike those thiefs in D.C.
Stop pouring OUR good money after bad and get the heck out!
GM had it's shot, and it failed. Ok, big deal! How many mom and pop stores have failed, but no one decided to care about them? I understand that there are a lot of jobs to be lost if they go under, but that'll just open the doors for smaller companies to get their foot in the door. It's not the end of the world if a company fails. Isn't this what capitalism is all about? We're supposed to fail! If we didn't fail then we wouldn't know how to succeed! As Thomas Edison said, "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." It seems that GM has found one way that doesn't work, and it's time for someone else to take a shot at finding that one way that does work.
Well we are getting positive response from our tea party protests. I saw on the news this morning that we may be instilling some confidence in the people and the market. We can build on the positive and tell the negitive to stick it where the sun don't shine. Go Patriots!
The truth about this is balancing market losses. They are simply waiting for the market to make some gains and then the bankruptcy will be announced. This way the hit to the market will not appear so severe. Have you noticed everything is being reported as % losses or gains in the market. So you balance this by controlling the announcement of bad news. The gov't controls GM, so they control the filing of bankruptcy and thus the bad news. Let wait until we have a 300 point gain in the market and announce the bankruptcy the following day or late Friday evening and give the public the weekend to forget. Sort of like the latest bank failure announcement last night.
GM should have filed from the very beginning, but they didn't. Instead they bought in to the government fairy tale that they would be saved. I find it interesting that they have three potential buyers for their Hummer diviision. I wonder if one of them is in Iraq? It seems that Hummer is the vehicle of choice among the Iraqui people these days. As far as being too big to fail, that's simply not true. Other car manufacturers have fallen by the wayside and the country has gotten along fine without them. So far, Ford seems to be the only one with the guts to tell the Feds "no thanks" and they are still in business. Maybe some of the folks at the other big companies in this country should take lessons.
Who, in the GM mix, does not want to go with this bankruptcy? Bondholders don't want to become common stockholders. Company execs hope for the OB admin don't push quick bankruptcy. As for the dear UAW . . .
" OB admin.. saying the Union must make concessions to be comparable with their rivals all around the world.Unions very powerful, helped their president get elected… can't separate what's going on in GM which what's going on in Chrysler, particularly with what's going on with the union… Fiat pressuring unions to make massive cuts, and the unions are loathe to do that at any of these automobile makers…"
—April 17,2009, Charles Payne, Fox Business Analyst (who is not a white guy)
Fox reports the facts fair and balanced. YOU DECIDE . . . who holds the cards in this GM money laundering fiasco??
The Unions/current administration thats who.
FBN is a great channel for straight up discussion, I am a Cavuto and lately Cody fan.
Gee the Government takes over GM and it goes bankrupt…does that suprise anyone?
Unshackle them from CAFE standards and the Unions and see what happens. You will have an affordable car that people want along with thousands of new jobs.
If GM files for bankruptcy, do we get the bailout money back??
yea when they have fixed global warming
highly unlikely…if we got the bailout money back, then you wouldn't have the gov't backed warranties….they want to keep control of GM, just like they want to keep control of the banks by not letting them pay back the TARP funds. At least some of the banks have been paying it back, because they've seen what happened to GM and don't want any part of THAT.
To answer your question directly; NO.
Though if you want you can sue.
But really the plan is that they pull their heads out, and become sucessful again and then pay us all back.
But I think something will happen and we will never get it back, at least not all of it.
Are you kidding the UAW has already spent it.
nope.
You must be kidding. I'd even go as far as to say I could see President Wimpy Chia Pet giving GM more of our money before his ignorant slef lets them fail. You see this loon of a President owes the Unions for the millions up on millions they spent on gett ing his wimpy tail elected. It's time for President Wimpy to go & take his government tit sucking Unions with him. The worst of it all is that he has thrown billions away on something to big to fail & it is going to fail anyway. What a moron
Let's see, Wimpy is backing the car warranty for GM cars. Oh, wait, that's us. News today is the program "cash for "clunkers" extends to autos beyond the continental US. The country is upside down. No responsibility, no ethics, no spine.
Nope, the Obama administration is going to trade the bailout money for an equity stake in the new organization.
GM should have filed for bankruptcy in the beginning instead of soaking us for billions, which we will never see paid back. This goes right up there with the California tatoo removal. Forest Gump is alive and well and they are in Congress. Congress believes in order to fix something you just throw more money at it. That is like changing your oil every time your tires go flat hoping the car will roll.
Forest Gump was much smarter than this group of goofballs…..and that's all I've got to say 'bout that!
Bankruptcy is what should have happened in the first place. Billions of dollars, which were created out of thin air by fiat, have been laundered into the economy and that GM will go through bankruptcy anyway now proves to me that this was the real goal of the "bailout" all along.
It wasn't ever about 'being too big to fail', it wasn't ever about 'saving GM with a bailout'. I think it was all about laundering in fiat money in a way that would attempt to avoid instant inflation.
Anybody else think the same thing or am I just out in OZ in my line of thinking about this subject?
Thanks. New to this…
What time did what happen? Sorry , I don't understand what you are asking me.
Well, Welcome and Great start!
I agree, but the company is supposedly responsible to pay it back. (Fat Chance)
No Problem!, It would help if I had my face in my profile. Maybe soon.
You didn't have to delete your first reply, there wasn't anything wrong with it.