4/17/09: WWJD?
Posted by the912project on April 16, 2009 · 520 Comments
He Probably Would NOT Cover A Religious Symbol
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IntenseDebate Notification <DIV>This is the last time I am going to reply to you. I am a Southern Baptist and I am intolerant of Christians? You read way too much into things my delusional friend. I dont believe relgion should be involved in the government. By religion I mean any form of it that represents any sect of any religion at all. I did not say that the individual in government, Congressmen, President, Justices etc. were not to be guided by their religious beliefs. Christianity has no business trying to stick its head into government. We need Godly men in government. There is a difference. There will be no Christian nation until Christ returns no matter how much Christians may want it. We fall to tempation and greed too much for that to be a reality.</DIV> <DIV style=\”FONT: 10pt arial\”>
This was an excellent post. It seems that even if you are a Christian yourself, wanting church officially out of government is seen as intolerance. We don't want the Church in government, we want the Church's people in government.
Wanting the Christian Principles out of Government is not only INTOLERANCE it is very stupid. The reason this nation has gone so far down hill is exactly because of the false seperation of Church from State.
Why are you so affraid of Church being involved with State. The Church doesn't make laws. What should worry you is the involvement of Government in Religion.
That is why the founding fathers PROTECTED us from the Government being involved in Religion and not the other way around
IntenseDebate Notification <DIV>Thank you,</DIV> <DIV>I am so glad somebody got it. The other dude cant seem to get a grip on it. He doesnt know the difference between the church and the individual. Thanks for letting me know I wasnt losing my mind! Have a blessed day</DIV> <DIV style=\”FONT: 10pt arial\”>
Won't post it again but look at the posts above the quote a SUPREME COURT case (one of three in our history) where they outline our founding and DECLARE we were founded as a Christian Nation.
Read some of the states consitutions. Delaware just for one instance
article 22 of the constitution of Delaware, (1776,) which required all officers, besides an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe the following declaration: "I, A.B., do profess [143 U.S. 457, 470] faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
I am not going to post every states Constitutions but there are references to religion and God and yes even JESUS CHRIST in them
Why does Article 1, section 7, of the Constitution EXCLUDE SUNDAYS as one of the 10 days the Congress has to over ride a Presidential Veto?
Muslims (Friday). Jews (Friday / Saturday)…….HMMMMMM what day is it that Christians go to church……. let me think… almost there…… Oh yes SUNDAY
Think about what your sayign JRJSRJ your tying yourself up in knots. your agreeing withme even though your not.
First of all, as I have repeatedly said, we were founded on CHRISTIAN VALUES and not a certain denomination or as you say sect
You say "I don't think religion shoudl be involved in government".
Then you say "We need GODLY men in GOVERNMENT"
Then you say " Presidents, Lawmakers and Justices should be guided by their religious beliefs"
What is the Government JRJSRJ? The Government is "THE PEOPLE"
So how could you POSSIBLY keep Religion out of government when YOU are ADVOCATING that those in government be guided by their religious beliefs?
How could our Founding Fathers have not been guided by THEIR religious beliefs and once again they were almost all CHRISTIANS. Therefore the nation was founded on CHRISTIAN VALUES
WWDJ???? First time, he came to show love and sacrifice for the sins of man and I'm thinking….maybe when he returns, he won't be so tolerent.
Quit bringing up Straw Man arguments.
Did I say anthing about any other country?
Read the Founding Documents. There is no way you can read those documents and HONESTLY say that this country was not founded on CHRISTIAN principles.
YOU may not like IT, but that does not make it untrue.
But you need not worry because this country is no longer ran on Christian Principles. That is why we have decended into Moral Decay.
I have read the Bible 3 times from front to back 3 time. I did an intense study for about 4 years. I read and study the Bible every day. I have a good teacher in pastor Arnold Murruy. I have been gifted with an understanding of God's word but still have a long way to go.If you would like to check my study out it – http://www.geocities.com/jimbo48.geo/
Its a work in progress, but there's a lot of info in it.
Thanks for your kind words
IntenseDebate Notification <DIV>The fact that 190 self proclaimed protestant Christian men voted to NOT allow a state religionis your proof. The founders were no fools and they each knew just how corrupt men could be. Read the minutes of the Constitutional Convention specifically Madison's comments about the fact that relgion could not be allowed to take a role in government. It is fine for men, even the leading man of the US to be governed by God but it is another thing altogether to put God in front of people who dont believe in Him and say He is part of the government. It is fine to have principles defined by God as part of our laws but it is not fine to say the Bible is the law. There is a tremendous difference. Religion had to be limited to prevent any single religion from becoming the dominant or state religion. Take issue all you like but the Constitutional Convention gives you the arguments for and against EVERYTHING that they wrote into law.</DIV> <DIV style=\”FONT: 10pt arial\”>
You have only "Proved" that the founding fathers want to protect us from the Government declaring a STATE religion.
you did not state even ONE fact to show that the founding fathers wanted the Seperation of Church FROM state.
You say that they LIMITED religion and that they wrote all of this into law. Where? Show me the law that they wrote saying that the government is to be devoid of anything to do with religion. Anyone can come on here and say something is true. Prove it.
(To be continued)
JRJSRJ if the founding fathers VOTE INTO LAW (AS YOU ALLEGE) the seperation of Church form STATE then Why is it that the founders (and those after)
(1) Required (and we still do) take an oath to the Consitution with our hand on the BIBLE. And when you are in court you take an oath with your hand on the BIBLE
(2) Open every new session of Congress with a PRAYER?
(3) Put the 10 Commandments in the SUPREME COURT BUILDING.
(4) Why did they say that we are endowed by our CREATOR.
(5) http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm (fouding father religious quotes) including this quote "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." by John Adams
(6) Liberty Bell Inscription: “ Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof” [Leviticus 25:10]
IntenseDebate Notification <DIV>You took what I said out of context and you didnt read what I wrote in reply. You also havent looked at the debates of the Constitutional Convention like I told you to do. Individual morality that is guided by divine command is fine. They knew the problem of religion getting into government would be that the differing sects would vie for power which is why the Christians themselves voted several measures down at the Constitutional Convention. You read the 2nd amendment to say the government shall establish no state religion and stop there. Do you not see the inherent problem with religion trying to get inovled too much. The morality of the Bible is written into the Constitution there is no need for us to go any further than the founders did. If you will do your research you will see what I am talking about. </DIV> <DIV style=\”FONT: 10pt arial\”>
IntenseDebate Notification <DIV>http://www.constitution.org/dfc/dfc_0000.htm</... <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Go here and start at the beginning. Go through each day and look at the arguments manifested and you will see the intent of the founders in writing the constitution. You will find the proof of what I am saying. You will also gain a greater appreciation for the men that did it. Despite what many believe due topopular history or bad teaching these men intentionally limited the influence of religion in government. You need to remember why people came to America to begin with. Most were running from religious persecution abroad. They werent about to let it rear its head here. Read the debates and see for yourself their intent. </DIV> <DIV style=\”FONT: 10pt arial\”>
WWJD?- What He has alway done-ask "Do you love me?" and there will come a time when those individuals and institutions who capitulate to the ways of the world will hear him say-"I never knew you".
Amen to that, eclectic! I wonder if our president has ever considered the absolutely amazing fact that a pretty small group of English colonists (mostly farmers at that) had the guts to declare their independence from the #1 super power of the world at that time, fight for said independence and actually WIN! I mean, how in the world could that have happened if not for the intervention of God?
I hear that there were many, many instances in the Revolutionary War where Gen. Washington stated that he was sure we would have lost if not for the hand of God.
Let me first off say that although I'm a born again Christian I am not a Catholic. Let me also say I feel the same rage that all of you who are Catholic feel. There seems to be a very definite pattern of attack on the Catholic Church. Why dose B.O. seem to pick Catholic universities to speak at when he then goes out of his way to show disrespect to the Catholic religion? He appoints people who have shown great disrespect to the Pope and to other ranking officials of the church. It seems that his whole administration and liberal members of both the House [ Barny for one] and the Senate [ Nancy] for another go out of their way to stick a finger in the eyes of all Catholics, or am I just being to cynical? The only way to shut them out of the public eye is to vote them out of office!
Obama is a muslim that is a fact he is a real threat to American ways.He friendly to dictators and low life people that hate America.He only got votes because he was black and he got all the homosexual votes.If he is opening the doors to Cuba so people can go back why did they come here anyway.They should remember how Castro is and a vote for Obama is a vote for what they ran out of Cuba for.Obama will never make me stop praying only pray more.To cover a image of Jesus is a disgrace to America he should be impeached .
We were created for His pleasure, and He must get a lot of laughs, (as well as sorrow), from us these days. So we're not a Christian nation. That's strange, there sure does seem to be an awful lot of documentation, written by the founding fathers, to indicate that this nation was indeed founded upon Judeo-Christian values and principles. Leave it to the intellectuals and progressives to shift the nation's foundation off of a God-given cornerstone, (1 Peter 2 : 6-8), for a foundation of dust (Genesis 2 : 7). What would Jesus do? Scripture records that He had some rather scathing remarks for the pharisees whom He accused of placing loads upon people that they themselves weren't willing to carry (Matthew 23 : 2-4). How are politicians that levy taxes which they themselves are unwilling to pay, any different?
Freedom can only truly exist in a moral society.
I am glad you set that straight. I have read quite the opposite. Marv Rosenthall for one doesnt agree with your chronology. Thats really the key disagreement is timing of the event. You can believe what you like but when the Lord tells you 10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
Rev 3:10 (ESV) I dont see where you get your philosophy from. The Lord said it I believe it. We were not appointed to wrath. I believe it will be a pre wrath rapture not a pre tribulation rapture. The 6 seals correspond to the tribulation the bowl judgements are on the INSIDE of the scroll. You cant open the scoll until all the seals are broken. Therefore no judgements can happen till all the seals are broken. After the 30 minute silence in heaven after the 7th seal then the bowl judgements begin. But what do I know of chronology.
the article says that Obama asked for this so the backdrop will match the previous ones he has had when giving a speech, this proves once again that he is about style and not about substance, that's what i think his actions say more than disrespecting Christ
I am still offended that he covered it up, though. if he "respects" the cultures of the countries that he attends meetings in and follows their customs while there, he should show the same respect to Georgetown and not have them alter the place to based on superficial reasons. Yet, i guess that could just be his excuse. I really shouldn't tkae him at his word, since it has been proven to be untrustworthy.
What Would Jesus Do? He would have us stand on the firm foundation of his holy scriptures and our
Constitution which have proven to be beacons of strength and light throughout our nation's history. We believe all leaders make mistakes, but If we hold them to the premise that "by their fruits we shall know them," then we know we are now being led astray. When the government, our leaders and the media do not align with the core beliefs of our Founding Fathers and our Heavenly Father….we know without a shadow of a doubt that we are being led far from the safety and peace we desire as a nation. We call it the spirit of discernment. Never before in all of our lives have we felt a need to pray and fast more ferverantly than now. Let us all continue with the positive energy that was kindled with the tea parties. And within the walls of your homes, pray and fast to God.
Ever since Greed, Fear, and Hate was being maintained, by the church, I believe Jesus would be trying to distance himself from politics. The mixing of God and Money, has been used by Different Countries, for thousands of years. Why would God want to be put on a Monetary Idol, that leads to Greed? Not one faith based person can give a reason. They just know, they want MORE MONEY. These double standards of religion, are being questioned throughout the world. And even though many will Hate my statement, they can find No Bases, to argue against me. Those who have MORE MONEY, DON"T HAVE MORE RELIGION. In Fact, it is contrary.
You seem to be making alot of generalisations. Who exactly are you talking about hates money. God doesnt hate it. Show me that in scripture if you can. He uses all for His glory and our good. If you have a person that tells you they are a Christian and you know they are wealthy and they dont use their money to benefit God's purposes does that make Christianity false or does it make that person a bad Christian? Bad Christian. Money is a gift of God to be used for His purposes. If we love anything more than God that is at once both covetousness and idolatry. Thats something God wont tolerate. I know many wealthy people in my church and they use their money to fund all sorts of things to further the Gospel. There are no double standards in Christianity. There is hypocrisy amongst men who claim to be Christians. Dont confuse the two with generalisations. It makes you look foolish.
This is a very true statement. I too hate when people confuse & intregrate the two. It seems that Christ is so often confused with us "men". Were humans and therfore will & do make plenty of mistakes.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
I hope no one thinks that what the president did was by accident for no man denies Christ and it not sadden Christ.
Just as Peter denied Christ 3 time and Christ forgave him it can also happen with the president but somehow I doubt it will.
It seems our president has an agenda.
Throw out biblical based religion.
It has no place in a godless society such as the one they are trying to force on us.
STAND UP NOW or we shall face persecution such as we have never seen in America.
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Does this type of comment make me an extremist? If it doesn't I think I shall have to try harder.
The Bible makes us extremeist. Proud to be one myself! There is no middle of the road in Christianity. We cannot believe that other gods exist, for it makes our God a liar if we do. "You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.' "
Isaiah 44:8 (NKJV)
We cannot believe that others have aboslute truth when Jesus said,"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6 (ESV)
We cannot believe that its ok to kill babies when God said in Jeremiah, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you;
Jer 1:5 (ESV)
So keep being an extremist. The titles and degradations of man are nothing. Jesus promises us blessings if we are persecuted for His namesake.
By blessing my Savior I am agitating Satan and his followers and that gives me great pleasure.
Thank you for the encouragement.
What Would Jesus Do? He would say, Follow Me and "trust NOT in the arm of flesh." We should cling to the truths as written in our holy scriptures and our Constitution. We are told by the wise who scripted these words….to judge them by their fruits, in other words, judge by people's deeds and the fruition of their efforts. We are outraged at the treatment we received from the left wing media and how little concern Washington has placed on its own citizens. How dare Nancy Pelosi say we are an "astro turf movement rather than a grass roots connection." And if this is how we are being treated from the top, than no wonder we are all so worried….and more so why we must continue with our Tea Parties. On a little island in the middle of the Pacific, our people showed up in large numbers. We were all strangers….meeting for the first time. We came from all parties, all religions, old and young and infants. We proudly held our flags, our signs and sang our patriotic songs. No one organized our efforts. We were not paid to show up. We are not the wealthy. We are good, hard-working, family-oriented, God-loving, patriotic Americans who love our Country.
What Would Jesus Do? He would have us endure with hope and faith. We believe America's greatest days are yet ahead. We truly believe this is an essential occurrence in God's eternal plan…….a polarization of belief systems (a time of weeding/cleansing), so concise that honorable people will no longer be deceived. There are righteous causes yet to blossom as a rose. There are great discoveries yet to be made. There are generations of children yet to be born and raised to become caring, nurturing members of our great country. Everyone out there….let us galvanize in our core beliefs and move forward hand in hand and heart to heart in our efforts to be a righteous legion with one mighty voice…….and " With God on our side…all things are possible."
Next time the president speaks can we cover his face?????
I stand corrected…I knew that! Got it backward. Just call it a senior moment! I'm having a lot of them lately especially since O's "coronation". Yes, I read all 13 of the Left Behind Series and some other novels at that time, ie,"Silenced" by Jenkins, "Babylon Rising", Lahaye . I have stayed up until the wee hours of the morning to finish one of the Left Behind ,only to wait almost a year for the next one in the series to be released.
I bought them all in hardback and loaned them out one at a time to friends. No problem getting them returned because they also couldn't wait for the next one. I bought the first three movies as well. Lahaye and Jenkins may not have all the details correct but they were magnificant for those who may have had no understanding whatsoever of Revelations.
He can't stand in the light of Jesus!!!!!!!
I am probably already on that list! Not as a potentialrecruit, but as a likely recruiter! I can handle firearms, and I own a few, but don't particularly like them. I guess something about having kids… I don't know… I think about firearms as a kind of necessity. Like a flashlight, candles, a full pantry… because you never know when you might need a survival tool. I may not like guns a whole lot, but I'll fight like he11 defending our right to keep them.
You got a sister!
Sorry, no sisters…all brothers!
I'm seeing alot of flack on O for making the request. What I can't understand is why the school agreed to it. Isn't that like putting "false god's befor Him"?
I agree. They never should have agreed to cover it. The fact that they did says alot about thier own devotion.
I intend to contact Georgetown University to remind them that they are a Catholic institution. Nobody has the right to request that any symbol of Catholicism be covered or modified in any way on Catholic Church-owned property, be it the church proper or a lecture hall. Nobody includes the President of the United States. The students at Georgetown do not pay high tuition only to have their university officials give way to secularism. If the President does not wish religious symbols in the background or forefront of his speeches, I suggest he not speak at religious institutions.
God bless you.
Since Jesus was clear about the importance of avoiding a public show of religion in Matthew 6, he probably would have approved of what our president did.
I suspect, more importantly, that our president wanted to avoid anything that might imply that our government is religious. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly said that. It was ratified by a unanimous vote of the Senate and signed by President Adams not long after the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution.
Neither of these, of course, infringe on the rights of our citizens in regard to their respective religions.
This was not a public show of religion but rather a public official accepting an invitation to speak at a religious instituion. If our President wants to avoid anything that might imply that our governement is religious, he should not speak at religious venues.
In Matthew Jesus warned of an outward appearance of religion for the approval of men. This verse would probably be applicable in this instance because I don't think the president is doing anything either inward or outward for the approval of God. However it seems you infer that anyone in government shouldn't have a show of religion, that would be incorrect as we are to live our conviction to the Lord in everything we do. That would include public office. To do otherwise would be to disavow who we are in Christ.
Jesus is concerned with the state of your mind and your heart. Every action you take in life begins in the mind and the heart. Which is why what Obama did can be rightly taken for what it was. His complete disdain for Christ. He will pay for it in the long run.
to hell with Mccain , Schmidt and anyone else who has a problem with my religion
You just beat around the point don't you (LOL). I 'm standing with you as I feel many here on 912 are.
There are three main classes of temptation, one more vile than its predecessor.. The first is desire for bread, lusts, or anything earthly. The second is a tendency to make yourself Godlike, to rely on your power and not His. The third is the willingness to give up God for power over the world, even unto worshipping Satan.
Be very careful of those that would make themselves God, those that lust after power over the rest of us. Also, be very careful of those that would appeal to your lusts for bread, money, sex, drugs, and other THINGS. Be careful of those that would try through their own efforts or their "supporters" to instigate hate by one group of people for another. These are the fruits of the evil minded person that either does not believe in God, or wants to take His place.
Lusts for bread????You mean the desire for $200 per lb, imported beef and expensive wine and weekly outrageously expensive coctail parties? Oh and don't forget the expensive imported cigarettes! But, what the heck? The "annointed one" deserves only the best while the poor unemployed working class Joe, struggles to feed his children!
Amen. I was just quoting a verse that uses "bread" as a catchall for all desires. "man does no live by bread alone… no less $200 per lb beef.
This just "frosts my cookie" as my hubby's expression goes. I am a former Catholic (born & raised and am now Baptist). I have to say this just confirms my decision even more in leaving "my faith" as it is often put. I had so many diapointments before throught my Catholic life about the double standards. My last straw was when I had had a troubled pregnancy with my son. I had some trouble with my daughter too before. I prayed and prayed before making the decision to tie my tubes prevent a life threating "next time" so to speak. I went to talk to my priest. Let's just say no biblical or reasonable (as applied to Catholism) reason was given other than because it wasn't "life threating" at the time, it was wrong. So, I left. Not just because of that, but that was my final straw to that I WOULD NOT get communin due to "mutalating" my body. Yes, I said they considerate "mutalating" my body. I say it's an ounce of prevention guided by prayer. Oh well, GO Catholic Church GO! Keep selling your "soul to the devil and loosing members!!!!
I am glad to see you found your way. I was raised a Jehova's Witness and am now a Southern Baptist. The leadership of the catholic church has taken a serious nose dive. There are still plenty of good people who are catholic and no doubt love Jesus. Its the leadership thats in trouble. I understand if you were having an abortion how they come at that conclusion but I dont see how that has anything to do with communion anyway. And since when does a human decide who recieves communion and who dont? If you take communion and you have unconfessed sin between you and the Lord you commit another sin on top of it. If however you confess prior to taking communion you and the Lord are straight. So where does man fit into the equation? Its between you and God not you and another man. It appears they have replaced the sanhedrin.
I'm certain that this thread was not intended for Catholic bashing.
I agree. Peace be with you. Pray that Catholics are liberated from their clergy, and come to have a real, honest and direct relationship with Christ and the Father.
I don't mean to be picky about your idea but those illegal aliens can also attend church in their countries of origin. Attending mass is a zero sum game, you don't have to attend church here illegally, you can go back to your own country and attend church legally there. I am not limiting this to Mexican illegal aliens, my comments pertain to all illegal aliens in this country.
All illegal aliens, please go home and come back legally and stop taking our tax dollars.
nomoreliberals, I agree! I am surprised he hasn't already. God has this all timed and I think as said in he scripture, "no man knoweth the hour". We Christians all recognize the signs of the times and that we are near the end. My mother passed to heaven 8 years ago and she knew it and only wanted to be here when Our Savior returns. It sure looks like I will have that exciting priveledge. He doesn't have to be all that inteligent right now….his transformation I think, will come after his assisanation and the indwelling of Satan occurs. I agree with JDAngel..the "beast is the one world system, inc. fed reserve, the Bilderberg group,etc. The dragon is the antichrist. As for the rapture, whther or not it occurs, I am not worried, for I stand on his promises to protect me.
viv2813, I think the Bible says that Satan is the dragon, and Anti-christ is the beast, but I could be wrong….would have to read it again
. You must have read the Left Behind books….I read 12 of them in 3 weeks….so good I couldn't put them down!
I believe that the removal of Saddam Hussein and the timing of the death of Yasser Arafat was predetermined to happen. Both of them were impeding the peace process in the Middle East, i.e. Saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers and Arafat refused to compromise on anything. This paves the way for Obama to facilitate a 7-year peace agreement, which he would break after 3 1/2 years. Like I've said before, turning the economy around and bringing peace to the Middle East could certainly be considered "miracles" to some people. I think if the peace agreement occurs, this will be the event that will finally lead people to believe who he really is.
I have the movies. I didnt read any of the books. I have to say after reading some work of Messianic Jews and listening to my pastor. I am not sure who is right. They both say almost the same thing. There is a 6+ year difference though. One (my pastor) is pre trib like Left Behind, the other is pre wrath. I personally dont care which cause if its pre trib then yahoo I get a front row seat in a souped up body! If its pre wrath thats fine to cause once the tribulation starts that means we only have 6 or so years to go. No problem.
If I were to someone's church that had a different belief than I do, I would not expect, nor ask that they cover their religious symbols. It would be totally disrepectful of me to do so. This administration shows nothing but total disrepect for Christians. He says he is one and he attends church, but his actions speak higher that simply walking into a building each Sunday.
Christianity is the only religion that its ok and pc to attack. Look at what cartoons of muhamed did. Yet its considered art when a punk puts a cross in urine, which the governement funded by the way.
Being politically correct has ramifications not quite so obvious as covering a symbol or eliminating a reference to our Lord. In Matthew 10:33 –
“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.”
The “Me” in the verse refers to Jesus Christ. I think this country has been richly blessed because of our Christian heritage. However that will change if we choose to deny Jesus in what we say and do.
Amen brother!
President Obama is setting a precedent with this one. Now, he must do this with all religious symbols or face the possibility of continued ridicule. If it is the case that he wanted it covered up because of what is was, and not because it was not his normal backdrop, then we have a serious problem.
You raise a good point. I wonder if President Obama would have had the same request if speaking in a Muslim mosque or Jewish synagogue. I'll wager they would not have complied the way Georgetown University did. I intend to write to the president of the university, John J. DeGiosia, to let him know how shameful these actions were.
14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful."
15 And the angel said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17 for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth."
Rev 17:1-18 (ESV)
And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. 9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are of one mind and hand over their power and authority to the beast.
When I saw her, I marveled greatly. 7 But the angel said to me, "Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction.
Verses 8 & 15-18specifically calls out the roman empire & the catholic church. Their are seven hills in rome that the vatican is situated on.
As much as we try to hope for the best with Obama, he just continued to offend the sensibilities of virtually anyone in this country that had any christian values.
This was a very telling incident. Coupled with his recent bow to the Saudi king, you begin to see a patter……..
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk." 3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations." 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
How sad the message is that our president would disrespect a religion and still I find it even more troubling that our churches would not take a stand and disrespect its own congregation in a way to allow such behavior. What kind of hypocrisy and disrespect is needed for the “we the people” to understand we have allowed this to take place in our country and those people we have entrusted to have our best interest in mind have betrayed us both spiritually and mindfully. This is truly a sad day that has taken place.
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matt 24:29-31 (ESV)
Seems to me Jesus is clear about whats going to happen. There will be a rapture. There is no mention of the word missions in the Bible either but that doesnt effect the command to take the gospel into all the world.
JRJSRJ, based on vs.31. Whether we are or not raptured, it should not be a point of dissention among Christians. And if we are afraid to be witnesses for Christ, (as JDAngel stated, we wouldn't be posting our faith here or standing up for our Lord as we are doing more and more in these last days. But my dear husband,asked an interesting question,(he too believes in the rapture along with our pastor). If our Lord intends us to go through the entire tribulation, WHERE WILL HIS GLORY BE DURING THAT TIME ? Would he leave us here in darkness and despair with no praise or worship that glorifys Him?
Verse 31 is the 7th trump. Satan comes at the 6th trump. No rapture. Keep you Chronology in order. Are you afraid to be a witness for Christ against anti-Christ/satan? And if so why?
23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, 'Look, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out. If they say, 'Look, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Matt 24:22-28 (ESV)
Con'd
Its fine to make your decisions based on Biblical principle but it is another altogether to force religion on people. Jesus offered (and still does) salvation. If people took it fine if not he loved them and walked away. Christianity can never be forced which is something the left never gets. Unlike islam we cannot force salvation on anyone. It must come from the heart of the individual.
In my humble opinion the Government, should be COMPLETELY unmistakable neutral.
They should not restrict nor inject judgment on any one, in the manner on how they would worship god.
Freedom is self-defining it needs no definition.
(Not to say you can have human sacrifice just because you claim it as religion.) But if you would like to say Merry Christmas, or Baa Hum Bug, to pray or not, to sing or not, no one person can claim offence because of another beliefs. That how I see it.
Live and Let LIVE>:
I would hope that Christians would not have the attitude that islam does and take a gun and put it to someone's head and tell them to convert or die. That kind of conversion is false conversion and is useless to everyone. You are so correct in saying it must come from the heart.
But where is the heart of many Americans today?
What kind of Christian would want to cover up a religious symbol while giving a speech at a Catholic University? Would Obama had done the same thing at a Jewish or a Muslim College? Do you really think that Obama is a Christian? I am in fact working on an article for my blog proving that he is not a Christian.
I see all of the hard-working "radical" middle class Americans rising up and ,yes, we are outraged by this. We are now banding together and rising up and saying 'enough is enough' This country has thrown common sense out the window and we are beginning to confront that head on. Great! My question now becomes where are our Judeo/Christina leaders??? What the heck is Notre Dame thinking? Why would any leader in those educational institutions breech their belief system? I think we American that have deep core principles/values/beliefs need to now babysit our religious leaders and hold them accountable also. I pray they are not swept up in the new "Messiah" syndrome.
I totally agree!!! We need leaders, not wimps who cave into the other side willing to compromise. The Dems do not want to compromise they want to reach over and pull our guts right out of us. I agree Notre Dame is a disgrace and the Pope or Catholic Conference of Bishops need to hold them accountable or reprimand the university in some way. I have written an article and expressed my outrage at Notre Dame in a youtube video. Here it is and pass it on to as many people as possible. The two sites are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3TQ4H2KJk4
or at http://teresamerica.blogtownhall.com/ I hope you enjoy both the article and the video!!!
I see all of the hard-working "radical" middle class Americans rising up and ,yes, we are outraged by this. We are now banding together and rising up and saying 'enough is enough' This country has thrown common sense out the window and we are beginning to confront that head on. Great! My question now becomes where are our Judeo/Christina leaders??? In additon to this incident, what the heck is Notre Dame thinking? Why would any leader in those educational institutions breech their belief system? I think we American that have deep core principles/values/beliefs need to now babysit our religious leaders and hold them accountable also. I pray they are not swept up in the new "Messiah" syndrome.
I have a question that should get you guys good and stirred up. Where is the line drawn between the separation of church and state, in everyone's opinions? We know that Jefferson wrote this after the constitution was written, but certainly it is useful to look into the founders' frames of mind when analyzing the meaning of the constitution.
So we have the establishment clause (i.e. congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion). I will admit that I've always seen this for justification when people say "This is not a Christian nation." My thinking is, based on this establishment clause, that while we are not officially a Christian nation, we are a nation who's laws are based on the natural rights of their "creator."
Thus we do not have to be a "Christian Nation" because we are already a "Nation of Christians."
What are your thoughts?
The founders knew what many Chrsitians and pastors in America seem to take for granted. Pastors and Christians know full well we are to follow the command given by our Lord to take the Gospel into all the world. Evangelize. You are correct we are a nation of Christians not a Christian nation. This is not semantics but reality. There will be no Christian nation until the return of our Lord. Then and only then will there be a Christian nation. Until then we are to evangelize the lost and pray for the Lords protection and guidance and adhere to the Bible as our ultimate authority. There is no denying that the country is founded on the Judeao Christian heritage. It is also noteworthy to notice that on every item the founders voted on during the constitutional convention you will find about 194 voters on any given item. You will find their relgious affiliation next to their name and you can see how they voted. They again knew the nature of man regardless of his being a Christian or not is corrupt and fallible so they intentionally limited the role of religion in government and government in religion.
IMHO…..I read that clause as a way to protect the church from the government…not the other way around…I heard this arguement made, went and read and reread that clause…I don't think it was meant to, in any way, limit the ability of the church to have a say in the ethics of our country but to make sure that the government didn't try to dictate to the church, what the church can and can not do….thus "protecting" the church…..FROM the government….
(i.e. congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion). Another way of looking at it….this clause gives us the freedom to practice our religon any way, WE THE PEOPLE want to…without congress interfering…I honestly believe that our government…for their own advantage…has twisted the meaning behind this clause, and taken the true meaning of it, out of context…
Agian, I believe this clause was meant to protect our right to freely express, practice, and worship our God/religion and NOT to limit our beliefs, or the expression of them, but to give the church and us protection, under the law, from our governments interference!
This is an interesting take on it, and I agree that the cause certainly protects the church from the government, and the people from interference with their chosen method of worship. Its a good thing that the church has a say in ethics in our government, but I'd like to know where you think the line should be drawn? How many Christian sects are there? Which ones should have their say? (meaning do they get to decide what is law?) Which denomination's teachings do we accept and which do we, as a people and as a government, reject?
I agree with your statement that the church, and religion in general, should have a voice in the nation's ethics, but the question as to all the denominations and sects recently got me to thinking. I'd like your opinion.
the so called" separation of church and state" was primarily to protect religion from governmental interference.
and to prevent the establishment of a state church , like was done in England .
nothing more
There is no such thing as seperation of CHURCH and State.
What the founders wanted was seperation of STATE from CHURCH. The first admendment could not be clearer. They did not want the government declaring a state religion but they also WANTED expressly PROHIBITED the government from interfering with the FREE EXERCISE of religion.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "
rsexteriors I agree with you completely. The Founding Fathers knew what it was like to live in a country with an "official" religion and didn't want the same for America. They wanted America to be the place where ALL religions were encouraged.
We aren't officially a Christian nation, but like you said the vast majority of people in the country in the late 18th century (and today) were Christian in some form. Our laws are rooted in the Bible, English Bill of Rights, Magna Carta, and popular philosophers of the time. I would ask anyone stating that we are officially a Christian nation to point out where that is stated in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.
Good point in writing about "their creator". You forgot "natures God". One could actually have a strong arguement that those descriptions for God are Deist, but that would spark up a whole new arguement!
I had that argument with a jewish guy a while back that denied christian founders actually voluntarily limited their influence during the constitutional convention. He took the stance that the founding fathers were all deists and not christians. Yet when faced with historical records of the voters of the constitutional convention there appeared only 4 deiests. Out of over 194 voters. The rest all some form of protestantism. Yet, each of these voted to limit the influence of government on religion and religion on government. There is an argument that Madison makes which is well founded by the way that if we were to make any religion the religion of state then the differing sects of that religion would then vie for prominence and so on and so forth. That is why the second amendment reads like it does. Google the constitutional convention and you will find a site that has the daily minutes and the items discussed and who discussed them along with voting records and with the voting records you will see each voters religous affilitation if any.
I agree with you, but if you do a speech in a church or any religious setting, and you make changes in the appearance of that setting for whatever reason, it is disrespectful.
And somewhat insulting to those who grant you the opportunity to appear in that venue.
We are indeed, A Nation of Christians after all.
As for me, “What Would Wellstone Do” bumper stickers are at the top of my list of annoyances. You see them a lot here in Minnesota. They tell me of the new religion of the left. Try covering one of them up, and see what happens.
I agree with you, whether you're in a Christian house, Jewish, or Muslim, as a guest you have a duty to show respect.
I've not heard of the Wellstone bumper stickers. Although I live in the solidly blue state Illinois, I'm from "downstate" which may as well be a different country.
What I find more disheartening is that the Catholic church leaders agreed to it. Call me crazy, but I imagine that if he'd been giving a speech in a mosque, he'd have left up every symbol of Muslim faith in order to "be respectful."
I got what you're saying, but irongirl does raise an interesting point: he may have gotten just as much flak over leaving the symbol up. And I would point out that it was only a symbol "IHS" not an actual crucifix or anything.
The "beast" is the one world system, and when it reaches its climax and falls apart, that will usher in the anti-Christ/satan, who will heal it. He will pay all your debts and perform miracles cause he is supernatural. All that he asks is that you bow down to him and worship him as Christ.
One easy thing to remember. If you're in the flesh it's not Christ! For when Christ returns ALL and i do mean ALL will be turned into their spiritual bodies!
I'm just a seed planter, and if I overloaded your donkey all out there, I am sorry
I appreciate your insight! Thanks!
I would never be so rude as to have my host cover up a symbol of their faith. Shame on him and his handlers.
Pulling white cloths over their heads would make him bolt…fast. I had to say it….
LOL wouldn't that be great? I just watched a youtube of OBama not covering his heart during the SSB. His heart is not with America. God help us all,.
When Obama speaks at Notre Dame, the people in the audiance should pull black cloths over their heads and hold up a crucifix.
The fact that a catholic university would cover up the sign of Jesus is disgusting. How appalling. Anyone that believes that Obama is a christian is only fooling themselves. I was raised a Catholic but because of too many things like this that have happened, I no longer attend catholic services. However, I believe in God and Jesus and I am disgusted with how this government wants to remove any proof in this country that the majority of us believe in God.
Man I tell you @ this rate god is going to be hard to find in this country once the gov't and nonbelievers get through.One more thing before I go isn't this country built around religion and God such as in the pledge of alligance.People stop trying to cause problems if you're on your way to hell no need to take us w/ you!
Covering other religious symbols when/where he speaks? It only makes sense. 1st Commandment.
No, I don't think he's the messiah, nor do I think HE thinks that. But SOMEBODY understands the symbolism of this. Who Is Running This Man?????
Money man George Soros!
I know what Jesus would do! He would throw out all the money changers, the people that run banks, then He would forgive them for their sins. He would also berate and forsake all rich people as they are just as likely to get into heaven as a camel has a chance of getting through the eye of a needle. Jesus would rise the poor up as his most holy diciples and wonder what America has been doing this whole time forsaking those who need the most. I know this could be construed as over the top, but I firmly believe that Jesus cries over the fact that so many rich live off the poor. My plug for today is to help build a house with Habitat for Humanity for somoen. God bless.
Wait a sec. Don't the feds run the banks.
No doubt you are an implant, with the intention of continuing your messiahs attempt at class warfare. You quote as if you where Jesus, but forget that Jesus himself said "that the poor would always be here, but he wouldn't".
Go flame somewhere else please. Obama bootlicking will not get you into heaven.
Wait a sec. Don't the feds run the banks?
No doubt you are an implant, with the intention of continuing your messiahs attempt at class warfare. You quote as if you where Jesus, but forget that Jesus himself said "that the poor would always be here, but he wouldn't".
Go flame somewhere else please. Obama bootlicking will not get you into heaven.
I suggest that if you are Catholic that on your next confession that you confront your Priest about this Teleprompter incident. Tell him that the Church's actions do not match their teachings and I bet it has an impact. Believe me, I have done this on other issues and at least they know we are listening and engaged and that we want the Church to stand for its values. If enough Catholics do this may be they will start to have some backbone and won't tolerate the actions of Pelosi and others.
Write your comment here…
The "beast" is the one wold system, and when it reaches its climax and falls apart, that will usher in the anti-Christ/satan, who will heal it. He will pay all your debts and perform miracles cause he is supernatural. All that he asks is that you bow down to him and worship him as Christ.
One easy thing to remember. If your in the flesh it's not Christ! For when Christ returns ALL and i do mean ALL will be turn into their spiritual bodies!
I'm just a seed planter, and if I overloaded your donkey all out there, I am sorry
He is not the anti christ. according to the Bible. the true anti christ will be hidden from us till his time is come. the anti christ has a puppet to lay the path and foundation for him. Everything he has done in my opinion lays that path. bowing down the that muslim leader an embarassment to the true american people. The Bible says that "he will be loved by all, the great deceiver"….. when in your lifetime has an American president be so readily accepted and anticipated from places all around the world? Never!!!! Separate church and state, what a strange thing because our Constitution was based on Christian beliefs…. those guys left England for religious reasons.
Google Red Skelton's Pledge of Allegiance. Spread it around….. google john wayne's Pledge of Allegiance.
Judging from the comments on this site, I'm not thinking he is loved by all
You will not find Separation of Church and State in the Contitution.. It's not there at all !!!! It is a Court Decision handed down about 40 years ago……..
Benjamin Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787
Principle #2 from this 912 website
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
God “The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained.” from George Washington’s first Inaugural address.
Unfortunately, as a lifelong Catholic, I have watched the US Catholic Church playing footsie with these politicians all my life. Georgetown U & Notre Shame have sold themselves into prostitution for these hacks who would like nothing better than to have the entire earth purged of all religion, thus 'putting them out of business'. They are Lenin's Useful Idiots.
We know what Jesus said…
What would alinsky and ayers do???
No, he would take off the American flag from his lapel and replace it with one of these symbols…we are a 'one-world' community now
im sure he did at rev wrights church. lol.
I do not mean to offend any of the Catholics (sp?) here and I do respect all religions, but I am beginning to wonder about the Catholic church. None of bishops/archbishops, priets etc have refused communion to any of the members of congress that support abortion rights. Queen Bee gets an audience with the Pope, if it I were the Pope, I would have refused to see her and explain to her the reason. Notre Dame invites BH0, the strongest abortion supporter currently in government, and now this. The Catholic church is against abortion so stand up for that position; If you are going to take a stand on a position, than have the COURAGE (haven't I seen that word somewhere), to stand up for that position, and frankly to hell with what politicians or the world thinks. Frankly, I think it has become Catholic Church Light.
Political correctness is simply a way to shut down freedom of speech. The Pope needs to stop being politically correct, and start to be biblically correct. God did not mince words when speaking to the Israelis. By being silent, the Pope is condoning these actions. He doesn't have the luxury of voting "present".
That's between God and the Pope, and I will say that is way above my paygrade. Although I do remember a letter the Marines received a while back praising the Marines for their many years of sevice to our nation it was signed……
God
U.S.M.C. (Ret.)
I became Catholic at the age of 53 LOL. Like any faith composed of people, it has it's flaws. We aren't all the same and we don't hold the same view. But I'm in favor of the Bishops refusing communion to people who aren't in communion with the Church and it's teachings. There is a responsibility to being Catholic. It isn't easy. I'd like to see the Bishops ban Father Phelger too. His a poor representative of the Church.
I am simply saying that those with the responsibility of tending to Gods flocks must stand up. If we do not speak up for God, it is certain that God will not speak up for us. Standing up for what you believe in should not make one troubled, it should make him inspired.
I'm the only Protestant out of a solid Catholic family, I am familar with the Catholic teachings and understand that there are flaws, BUT they have their beliefs and should stand up for those beliefs.
Fellow Patriot Marine,
The smoke of Satan entered the Church decades ago, the Enemy wishes to undermind the Faith and lead as many as possible to ruin by inspiring errors in the Church. This is possible because Man is imperfect. The Enemy's actions are by no means limited to the Catholic Church, look around and you will see countless examples where Leaders of other Chrisitan denominations have lead their flocks astray. However, remember what He said (paraphrase) when speaking to St. Peter… Upon this rock I will build what I must call my Church, and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."
I fully understand the imperfection of maan, and as as I said, I am not slaming Catholics, but they are the most vocal about abortion, it is intheir core beliefs, therefore they should be front and center on this issue, and that should come from the top. Where are the lawsuits opposing special treatment for footbaths in public government sponsored colleges, where is the lawsuits countering the removal of \”christain\” symbols from certain towns seals. I'm sure there are lawyers whose beliefs out weigh their need for money. Why has itbecome that the minority (ca. 12-13%) is ruling the majority. I was taught that the majority rules.
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, I think John Kerry was refused communion because of his views
That was during the election, but even that he is only one out of how many, excuse me but that is not standing up for your beliefs.
im not offended . maybe the catholic church is getting some of that bailout money too !!
I hope not, because here will come the lawsuits, you know, \”Separation of Church and state\”
Old Marine – I agree the Catholic Church is not the same as it was when I was growing up. It has definitely become more liberal in its views. What I mean by that is that they are tolerating this behavior that they don't actively support. I feel that the old Priests and Bishops of say 30-50 years ago would not kowtow to Pelosi or the Teleprompter asking to cover references to Jesus. I must point out that Pope Benedict is more hard core than Pope John Paul on these matters and I know he received her but he refused any photographs with the Botox Queen.
I agree, the idea that the Church should evolve is about as stupid as saying the Constitution should evolve.
Here is one take on this. With all the issues the Catholic religion went through with the priests raping children a lot of people left the church. A large number of the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico are Catholic, so Pelosi is backing amensty for the illegals which in turn means more people attending Catholic churches. This is what the pope wants. Why else would he sit back and just accept what Pelosi, Obama and any other liberal have said in support of abortion. If you or I said anything in support our local priests would probably have something to say about it, but that is because we are just the little guy. I don't agree with what the pope has done and I think it is a disgrace to the people who believe in their church and religion.
I don't feel that the Pope is really looking at the \”numbers\”, illegals will attend church anyway. He may just trying to avoid appearing to interferr in the politics of a nation, I understand that the brain trust, BH0, keeps nominating people to the Vatican who are abortion supporters as ambassor and they keep rejecting them. Why do I feel that these people are doing all they can to take religion out of our country.
As a Catholic, I have to say that I am shocked that they did this for Obama and that there is even a discussion on the Notre Dame thing. CATHOLICS STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN-WALK THE TALK!
NO MORE CATHOLIC LIGHT!! iTS NOT A CAFETERIA-YOU CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT TO BELIEVE!
I agree. The Church should \”Either LEAD, FOLLOW, or just do what dying churches do, get out of the way.\” I am glad I didn't offend anyone, It was not my intent.
Don't be surprised by anything you see from the Catholic church. I used to be one. When you discover that all they do is put a bunch of rules and intermediaries other than Christ between you and The Father, and simply want power in the world and an enslaved laity, then you understand what that Church is about. Anything that gives them power they are for. They will not stand for things that do not give them power or takes it away. Sure, there are many well meaning Catholics and priests, but the high power positions are as corrupt as any members of congress, corporations or banks. What you are seeing is a tradeoff on the part of Catholic powers. They will trade off some of their values to remain in power. Power is the most corrupting influence on the planet.
I am a Catholic and I must say I have been quite disillusioned with the Catholic church (Not with GOD just the church).
I have still not gotten over the FACT that my church not only allowed, but materially helped, pedophile priest molest kids but moving them from one parish to another to keep them out of trouble with the law and then when it became public they have not done the right thing and turned everything they know over to law enforcement. Instead they have repeatedly given out large payouts to victims, not in an effort to make up for what happened but in an effort to keep them quiet. When they agree to take the money they have to agree not to talk about what happened to them or by whom.
Then you have 65% of Catholics voting for democrats, even Obama, even though one of the church's main beliefs is ANTI ABORTION and they deem it a mortal sin to vote for officials that will push abortion rights. I of course do not want the church to demand someone vote a certain way, but if so many people disregard a MAJOR Principle and Value of the church then that is very demoralizing.
Then like Old Marine said you have the Pope meeting with Nancy Pelosi. You have Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy's, and many other ultra liberal Pro baby Killers recieving communion.
You have Catholic Institutions COVERING UP JESUS to placate a Muslim President. You have Notre Dame inviting him to speak and giving him an honorary degree.
And my wife can't understand why I have started missing church so much. To me something is either REAL or it ISN"T. If we as a church can not even take a stand for the unborn that are being slaughtered then something is wrong and I do not believe that Jesus would want to be a part of that. how can you go to church and confess your sins and take communion and then go pull the voting lever for someone who is not only for ABORTION but has voted for INFACIDE…………….?
A symbol of JESUS…Creator of life…Master of the wind and the seas…Holder of the keys to Heaven…who are we to think that the God of our founding fathers can be hidden beneath a piece of blackened plywood…I'll bet my life on the Heavenly 'Messiah'…how 'bout you??
A symbol of JESUS…Creator of life…Master of the wind and the seas…Holder of the keys to Heaven…who are we to think that the God of our founding fathers can be hidden beneath a piece of blackened plywood…I'll bet my life on the Heavenly Messiah…how 'bout you??
Well said
Ditto! Plywood can't cover the symbol of my Lord and Savior!
I have a different take on this. The way the stage was set up Jesus's symbol would have been right above the so called "Messia's" head. I don't want him in any way compared to our Lord. So it wasn't so bad covering it up. There was still plenty of stained glass pictures and stuff.
When we were at the Tea Party in Wyoming, we did see some people that tried to disrupt. But we all ignored them and they didn't continue!! I can't tell you how every day We wake up to hear another shocking fact about our President,sometimes we get discouraged, but then we know in our hearts that -yes we have to push back.But we also know that our God is in complete control. Since Obamas signing to release funds for 3rd World Abortions it has been all down hill!! But coming to this site has been a true blessing to know we have people that share our values!!!We must push harder than we ever have before!!!
Maybe God is allowing this to happen for a much greater purpose? Maybe people that have not woken up about the Dems and Liberals hypocrisy and anti-religious attitudes will finally wake up and take a stand. I hope and have faith to think that God has a plan for us which will be miraculous. Let each of us hope and pray. Maybe by our Christian actions we will touch other peoples' minds', hearts', and souls'.
Amen to that!!!
I thank you for posting an intelligent Christian reply for there are posts that I see on other sites that are from so-called christians that leave little doubt as to how small their Christianity really is.
I think now a wonderful time to mcdonsc and others of his ilk who post here to step back and take a look at their stances on Christians who unashamedly admit that who they are is DIRECTLY caused by what they are. Notice all the publicity from CNN, CBS, Bug-eyed-alia?
NONE of it has been based on "those people are nuts because they have religious convictions". It has been based on the sole fact that they believe us to be loons, period. They ARE that out of touch. That means you, mcdonsc. Tone down your fanaticism man! After all, you're not being hung out to dry because of your blasphemous beliefs on Jesus… you are being hung out to dry by the likes of Jeanine Garrafalo on your racism.
You'll have to ask Jeanine. I'm sure she'll explain it to you.
Meanwhile, pass me that Bible and my bullets, please? They are what got us going in the first place.
Jeannie just wants to keep her name in the press since she is a worthless comedian and a worthless actress…she always looks like she doesn't bathe
I think the phrase was (Praise the Lord and pass the ammo) but well said.
Well, I'm a registered Democrat, but I haven't voted that way since 911. If the republicans go that route, I'll have to find another party that represents my views. Civil unions is fine in my view, but not marriage. Marriage between a man and woman and two women isn't the same. Just because a lawnmower has 4 wheels doesn't make it car. Give them the same rights and responsibilities, but not at the cost of changing what marriage is. I use the Bible as a guide for what is right and wrong. I'm pro-life, and that's how I vote. I since before too long, I won't have a party to represent me.
I think we all know where the GOP will stand. They are just to the right of the left. They have no deeply held values, they are as bad as the DNC. They only care about power and are mad that the Dems have it right now and not them. That is why we (America) need to have a third party that stands for values and real beliefs.
If anyone on 912 gets any requests from the GOP National, asking for donations, use the envelope and send a note/letter telling them no money if the do not stand up for your core beliefs. This will hit them where they live. Maybe they will get the message. This idea of changing core beliefs just to get elected is crap. If people believe in the core values, then they will come, if not well, that's the way God wants it.
The man just claimed to be a Christian to get the Christian vote. A lot of Christians fell for it too.
Trust me any real Christians with the Holy Spirit leading them would not vote for Obama. I sure as heck didn't. I didn't even vote for McCain! No one this round of elections had my vote because they are weak lying politicians!
Well, now we'll see where the true conservatives are…from Fox news…..McCain Strategist Warns GOP Risks Becoming 'Religious Party'..Steve Schmidt urges Republicans to begin voicing more support for civil unions and gay rights.
He urged Republicans, in the near-term, to endorse civil unions and stop using the Bible as rationale for gay-marriage opposition.
thesse are just some of the statements…lets see what the GOP does, hey Micheal Steele, the ball is in your court.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/17/mccain...
Well, I'm a registered Democrat, but I haven't voted that way since 911. If the republicans go that route, I'll have to find another party that represents my views. Civil unions is fine in my view, but not marriage. Marriage between a man and woman and two women isn't the same. Just because a lawnmower has 4 wheels doesn't make it car. Give them the same rights and responsibilities, but not at the cost of changing what marriage is. I use the Bible as a guide for what is right and wrong. I'm pro-life, and that's how I vote. I sense before too long, I won't have a party to represent me.
The problem I've always heard the gays say is they couldn't be with their partner if there was an emergency in the hospital. The problem is a simple one if they designate their partner as their "health care representative" as that representative is legally bound to carry out the wishes of the designator! Case closed! BUT that is not enough, they want that marriage thing and will not settle for less until they get it! I say when the couple can produce a child on their own, not artifically, then they can get married. According to the Bible that is what marriage is all about!
Just because a lawnmower has 4 wheels doesn't make it car.
True but it will still get you a DUI ticket if you drive it drunk like these politicians run Washington.
That is why they lost this last election, and that is why they will lose the next. It's about values and principles, that is something that both parties are missing. They still don't get it.
That and voter fraud on the left. We have to bring the 9 – 12 back to America, and that starts at home, school and the neighborhood.
Gregory just hit the nail on the head. It is about values and principles. The GOP has waffled so much they look like competition for IHOP. The left has abandoned common sense and good judgment. They are pushing so hard under the PC umbrella to make solid Christian values evaporate that they have actually dug a very deep hole. Now it’s time for someone to start burying them. It could be the GOP if they get back to some bed rock principles.
Most people Religious or not agree that civil unions are okay for any two people living together gay or not. It is the blatant misrepresentation of marriage and LIBS accusing conservatives of keeping something that they feel is a right away from them. Civil Unions would give both parties access to healthcare, insurance and some other rights that every American should be afforded. But, Marriage is a SACRED ACT in which two heterosexuals are open to GOD giving them a child. These GAY individuals are not able to produce children in a natural way and because of this GOD CANNOT be apart of their sexual encounters. Yes, we as faithful Christians need to stand up for the true meaning of marriage which is being attacked by Liberals today.
I know this is simply a talking point and I believe that civil unions are a step in the right direction, but I am curious to your response. Marriage was not historically a sacred act, it was about chattel and legal agreements. It was changed into this sacred act between a a man and a women. Marriage is common across regions and religions, including ones that do not believe in a central god. So why now is this newer christian definition of marriage the one that represents the "institution" of marriage over all these others. To cause the christian definition of marriage to represent all of them is the government intervening in religion.
It is the minority (gays), who are trying to rule the majority, now we got states who want to rewrite history and the meaning of marriage. Guess what, the minority rules! That is not what this great nation was founded on.
This is why the GOP lost with McCain – they didn't say what they mean and mean what they say. Also, Schmidt didn't know how to run a campaign. They were plain vanilla and they didn't want to offend the other side. So the Teleprompter had a free ride. I bet McCain and Schmidt would be ashamed of, or disagree with, the 9 principles and 12 values of this project.
Also, McCain is disavowing Palin now which just goes to show what kind of individual he is – liberal and an opportunist. The fact that McCain (Mr. anti-pork) supported the TARP back in October was one of the main reasons he lost. He claims he is a principled conservative but his actions don't match his words.
Most of the Republicans I know felt they had no choice who to vote for as the alternative was out of the question. I held my nose to vote, and if the Robot had not been the other choice, I probably would have stayed home and not voted! THEY BOTH STUNK AND STILL DO!
I took off my Blog, but I predicted the McCain lost back in June or July. I have a feeling that this past election was a complete setup. McCain (i do respect him as a naval officer & POW) did not even fight, it was as if he wanted Obama to win and frankly if I lived in AZ, I would do everything I could to replace him, we need true conservatives not CINO's (Conservative In Name Only)
Good challenge to Michael Steele. I sure hope he steps up on this. And for McCain, well, he's the one who made a campaign about reaching across the aisle, and conservatives stayed home on election day. We don't need anymore of that. The Republican Party had better take hold of these issues and make them their own. Americans under religious oppression have no where to go! America is the world's last best hope for freedom. Christians, Catholics, Jews must resist this assault by the left, do they remember Germany 65 yrs ago? Catholics should OWN the right-to-life and marriage-between-man-and-woman issues, but every Catholic I know voted for BH0! Does anyone know why?????? And why do gays think they should have special rights? That's what it is – not equal, special. They already have equal rights. Marriage is a rite in the religious sense, but in the legal sense it is a privilege and a choice. Marriage has a centuries-old definition, and I for one don't think the gays have the right to 'improve' it or 'modernize' it to suit their agenda. Marriage is not a political right. It is a religious rite.
I'm afraid Steele won't get the message unless we do something. one of two ways:
1. When / if you receive a request for Donation, send it back with a note explaining that you want conservatives not CINO's and you will not fund a party who will not stand up for their principles. Anothe way is just send the envelope back, empty. This will cost them the postage and if they get enough empty envelopes, they might get the message.
2. Email, call or snail mail GOP and tell them what you feel. Although I doubt you'll get answer, I didn't but mail and calls stacking up my get their attention.
It seems every special little group wants to claim special right and priviledges, yet the majority seems to be oppressed and as our rights slowing erode, the specila groups get stronger, it is almost as if the government is forcing this and the majority will become a second class citizen, of course the liberal groups will say \”payback is a b____\”. But outside of slavery, and that was solved in the 1860's, that was the only group that has been opposed. If the Catholics in this country don't stand up they will be as the Jews were in Germany during the 30's before the final solution. Now that I think about it, it may not be just the Catholics, it might be conservatives as well. They have already started with the \”CARE\” Act and fundingof 5.1 billion and the DHS report about \”Rightwing Extremist\”. How about the TASS reporting about the TEA parties?Is the foundation being laid for the yellow C's and the Ghetto's? This could get messy, but God knows I hope it doesn't, but the signs are there to be observed, remember Hitler didn't start the final solution till he had complete control.
You can have all the civil unions you want Steve Schmidt but MARRIAGE is a religous unity between a man and a woman. This has nothing to do with GAY RIGHTS it is a out and out attack on RELIGION but tearing down the walls one at a time.
If you have strong religous beliefs stand up in your church and demand all to take action to protect their religion before it is to late.
They have been trying to tear religion down for a while now, without God what's left for this country.
Isnt this exactly the type of behavior and mindset that Rush said we needed to purge from the Republican party? I believe it was last year when he said it. He knows these guys "like every square inch of his glorious naked body". This guys is a joke and Steele better pull his head out of his butt and get this ship righted quick or we are going to be worse off than we are now. If tacking left could win we would have won. It didnt yet they dont learn. Why is that? Stupidity arrogance both? Let me ask yall this, 2008 saw LESS voter turnout than 2004. Yet more blacks and young people voted than ever in history. So who stayed home?
Yes, but I hate to say it, I was ahead of Rush on this, I saw it coming almost 2 years ago.
Here is part of what I was talking about from January 2008 @ http://www.rushlimbaugh.com
You see, this goes to what I was talking about in response to David Gregory's point about, "Will the GOP reform?" Why do we have to reform ourselves? For crying out loud, we've won 20 of the last 28 years presidential elections, what the hell. If anybody needs to reform itself, it's the Democrat Party. The Democrat Party hasn't had a presidential candidate get over 50% of the vote since, what, JFK? That's 1960. This idea that we have to reform, we have to change ourselves? The left would love that, and so would some Republicans who hate conservatives in their midst, particularly evangelicals. They would love for us to have to reform so they wouldn't be embarrassed to be in our party. But if this reformation takes place, we are forever gonna be a minor league team, like I said in the last hour. We're going to be AAA, and none of our guys are ever going to be called up to the majors. We're going to be back to being led by guys like Bob Michel with 130 members in a 435-member House of Representatives being shut out of meetings, and we're going to be told, "Know your place or you're not even going to get into meetings. And if you don't know your place, you're not even going to be invited to play golf with our speaker." And we're going to go, "Yes, sir, yes, sir, whatever you give us we're very happy with. Just make sure that we're individually reelected every year and we'll be glad to keep you in the majority." What is this?
What is this attitude we have of defensiveness and inferiority that says we are the ones that have to reform? In fact, I would suggest this. The Republican Party is in need of a little reformation, but I wouldn't call it a reformation, I'd call it a return. We need to go back to our successful roots, and that's what they are trying to prevent with this need to reform, that means, the subtle lingo there, is we need to become more moderate; we need to have more liberal influence at the top of our party; we need to get rid of the anger and the vitriol. That's translated as getting rid of talk radio. This is Andrew Sullivan. He concludes with this: "No, I don't agree with McCain on everything. But if it's a choice between him and Limbaugh, there really is no contest. McCain makes all the right people on the right angry. McCain represents a chance to remake the GOP on reformist lines, just as Obama represents a chance for the Democrats to escape the sleaze and cynicism of the Clintons. Maybe the Republicans, unlike, it appears, the Democrats, have the courage to choose the future over the past, to break a dynasty rather than entrench one. I sure hope they do."
Typically I might agree with some of your sentiment. It is more important to me that our leaders have faith and believe in a judgment beyond that which man may give than it is for them to be part of any particular faith. But this is a bad time to have a President who is in the bag for groups who state as their purpose destruction of America.
He refuses to appoint someone who may be Pro-Life to to the US post at the Vatican, doesn't get the objections to him speaking at one Catholic school – Notre Dame, and covers up religious symbols at another (Georgetown). Is it ignorance or anti-Catholicism?