Despite the recent rise in gun violence …
Posted by the912project on April 9, 2009 · 1,649 Comments
… Americans want less gun regulation.
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I am not sure if I am on the same page as you guys but I do not see any way they will ever "take" our guns. First, there is way too much pressure on law enforcement as it is. As ruger pointed out………… I know for a fact that 99% of law enforcement anywhere close to here would quit before attempting it. So that puts the job on the shoulders of the government. This would be a law enforcement issue, so the use of the military would be out. However, there could be and special service unit created to do the job. The problem with that is…. it wouldn't last long. Especially is some of the more rural areas of the country. Ten guys go out and none come back. It wouldn't take long before they found no one to do the job. Now there might be some type of legislative "trick" but any red white and blue blooded American would be able to see through it. Something where you have to bring your firearms into a law enforcement agency to be "registered" and such. Then… they just keep em. However, this would only work on a very small percentage of people, so I think that is out too. Long story short, too late, I agree that though a law may be passed it can almost never be enforced.
Not sure where you guys are located but wanted to drop this info. In Texas, at Academy Sporting Goods, they seem to keep a good stock of .223 & 7.62×39 (both in brass and steel). These are probably the most popular calibers of course. They seem to have decent prices too….. considering. I just happened to stumble into one the other day and had a lengthy conversation with the salesman. He said they are ramped up to try and keep ammo in stock. Oh, FYI, they do reserve the right to set a limit, although I was told it rarely happens. Hope this info helps you guys find what you need.
yes, it does. Are we not now the One Nation, All healed because we have"HOPE and CHANGE"? No-One need own a gun or knife or spoon. Our Mortgages and car notes are paid, we have no bills.
9-12er, 3%er, Oath Keeper, Vet and Ex-Cop
Μολὼν λαβέ (Come and Take Them!)
When Clinton was running against Bush for election, we were station in Germany and were told that anyone speaking out against Clinton would be prosecuted and court-martialed. The left will use whatever they need to bully the military. That is why they are afraid of the veterans. When you get out they can no longer threaten you and you become a threat because they know how you feel.
Bush may be a lot of things, but he never threatened the troops.
In fact the whole time Clinton was in power my husband never had an update on his clearance. Once Bush was in, they had a lot of catching up to do.
They are afraid of the military, veterans, their wives/husbands and their guns.
Exactly, why can't we have Dirty Harry for President?
"Do ya feel luck? Well, do ya punk?"
Does this mean the libs finally figured out that it's the bullet that makes a kill, not the gun? Love to see the argument that "…..keep and bear ARMS shall not be infringed" does not protect ammo….
Hope you have a good arm so you can throw hard to protect you're self and family. I'll be the first one sending my empty brass to the capitol… "Brass revolt causes Obama to rethink policy"…. That populist homeboy won't do a thing that hurts his image.
Does this mean the libs finally figured out that it's the bullet that makes a kill, not the gun? Love to see the argument that "…..keep and bear ARMS shall not be infringed" does not protect ammo….
Hope you have a good arm so you can throw hard to protect you're self and family. I'll be the first on sending my empty brass to the capitol… "Brass revolt causes Obama to rethink policy"…. That populist homeboy won't do a thing that hurts his image.
Very well said Walt.
Mmmmmm.Don't be so sure of that.Read about nicolae ceausecu and what his people and military did to him and his wife.The miltary sided with the private citizens..
The Three Percent in 1775.
During the American Revolution, the active forces in the field against the King's tyranny never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists. They were in turn actively supported by perhaps 10% of the population. In addition to these revolutionaries were perhaps another 20% who favored their cause but did little or nothing to support it. Another one-third of the population sided with the King (by the end of the war there were actually more Americans fighting FOR the King than there were in the field against him) and the final third took no side, blew with the wind and took what came.
Three Percenters today do not claim that we represent 3% of the American people, although we might. That theory has not yet been tested. We DO claim that we represent at least 3% of American gun owners, which is still a healthy number somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million people. History, for good or ill, is made by determined minorities. We are one such minority. So too are the current enemies of the Founders' Republic. What remains, then, is the test of will and skill to determine who shall shape the future of our nation.
The Three Percent today are gun owners who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act. Three Percenters say quite explicitly that we will not obey any further circumscription of our traditional liberties and will defend ourselves if attacked. We intend to maintain our God-given natural rights to liberty and property, and that means most especially the right to keep and bear arms. Thus, we are committed to the restoration of the Founders' Republic, and are willing to fight, die and, if forced by any would-be oppressor, to kill in the defense of ourselves and the Constitution that we all took an oath to uphold against enemies foreign and domestic.
We are the people that the collectivists who now control the government should leave alone if they wish to continue unfettered oxygen consumption. We are the Three Percent. Attempt to further oppress us at your peril.
To put it bluntly, leave us the hell alone.
Or, if you feel froggy, go ahead AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS
I'd like to throw a couple of comments out there that will argue our case and also hopefully put your mind at ease. Yes you've probably heard them before but they're still true.
1.Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
2.If you make guns illegal only criminals will have guns.
3.Would you rather people be pushed out of windows.
4.(and this one will hopefully make everybody feel better) If I need a rifle there will be plenty of them lying around. (And I heard that from a man named SgtMaj. Daniel and not from Sam Elliot)
I wanted to reply to Aspade's comment above but I want everyone to see it so I put it on a new comment.
You are absolutley right. And it would not end with the whitehouse our cities would be overrun with thugs each city would be like its own 3rd world country where street gangs would rule. Millions would die from starvation because people do not know how to take care of themselves. Everybody thinks food comes from the store. When this country was founded people still grew thier own food and hunted. And the code of conduct from both armies was aimed at helping the civilian population. If it happened again it wont be like that. Millions of people will die from starvation or be murdered in the streets by gangs who will look to sieze a little bit of power.
And I'm talking about the civilians. If we did go to war The United states as we know it would be gone no matter the outcome. At best scenerio it would branch into 2 or 3 different countries. The winners of the first part of the war will have to rid the cities of thugs. This will be bloody and destructive. We will never see a civilization here like it is now in our or our childrens lifetimes. Everything is electronic now so our currency will be destroyed. We wont be back to ground zero we will be at the dark ages.
I do agree that there is a certain line that I will not let the government infringe upon my rights. But that is my line and my path I do not ask others to share that line with me. We must do everything we can to keep it from reaching violent conflict. Or we must be prepared for the end of the world. I dont know about you but I'm not interested in starting armageddon
the point is , that the oppressors will not allow a peaceful solution other than our total capitulation and subservience .
I would rather die free fighting for liberty than live as a slave with no courage , honor , or freedom
there has to be a line that we will NOT allow them to cross and in fact I believe it should have been drawn on things they did a long time ago .
as it stands right now , registration , gun control , confiscation , or any other infringement on the core rights '
is reason enough for me and those of like mind to act.
they are on the very threadbare edge of starting a revolutionary war and they want it to happen I believe, because they think there arent enough citizens left with any guts or love of liberty and freedom to make a difference.
These shooting are really bad timing. I hope that doesn't sound callouse but at a time when our govt is ruled by one party and is in a huge power grab. I'm not sure if gun violence is increasing or just the coverage of it. We should be allowed to pack hand guns and own assault rifles. Here is an argument. The poor folks in NY to whom my heart goes out to. Immagrants who came in the front door. Wanting to be legal US citizens. These immigrants have my full support. Shot before they even had the right to buy a gun. So pretty safe bet most everyone in there is unarmed. I think we should change our policy. You come to imigrate to this country through the front door here is you conceled weapons license and coupon to bobs sporting goods. Good for any 9mm under $500.00. Your fist class will be tomorrow. Shooting the semi automatic handgun.
If our immigration policy went like that how many people would have died that day???? One for sure.
they arent bad timing , I believe that either they were well planned out ahead of time or manipulated into happening as a part of the plan to disarm and enslave the American people.
UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS ARE NULL & VOID AND HAVE NO AUTHORITY.
THIS IS ONE AMERICAN THAT WILL NOT COMPLY WITH ANY LAW OF THIS TYPE.
NANCY PELOSI I DEMAND THAT YOU RESIGN, YOU HAVE VIOLATED YOUR OATH OF OFFICE AND YOU NEED TO BE REPLACED FOR YOUR ACTIONS
Is it any wonder why so many are clinging to our guns? We see attack, after attack, after attack, on our liberties everyday! Power-grabs that would make the most power hungry dictators think they are small time! A constant drumbeat to punish those who have succeeded in life. And these are not new attacks, they have been happening for decades!
The only thing standing in the way of a dictator is our second amendment! And they want to water down that right as much as possible, with the ultimate goal of eliminating it!
One of the postings (Aprl ?) indicated they wanted to see guns banned due to a domestic violence situation they live with. FYI, the domestic violence perp does not need a gun to kill you. Wake up, rather than banning guns…move your butt out and go get professional help as to why you wish to stay in an abusive relationship. Your thought process is defective and banning guns isn't the fix to your problems. Get a clue!
Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1?
Why is this street so deserted?
We need to raise taxes, have paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.
Republican's Answer:
BANG!
Southerner's Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG! Click….. (Sounds of reloading)
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG! Click
Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hollow Points?"
Son: "Can I shoot the next one!"
Wife: "You ain't taking that to the Taxidermist!
speaking as a southern gentleman from the State of Georgia
that brought a smile to my face and .. it brought back memories too, heh
Being a former sniper I pride myself on being deadly accurate with my first shot and not waste more then one round on the scum bag. That being said, I'd roll with either a Southerner or a Republican, in that situation!
Democrat's Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could we run away?
What does my wife think?
What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the Kimber have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Southerner?
Here is a little test that will help you decide.
The answer can be found by posing the following question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small
children.
Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife
comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities,
praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you.
You are carrying a Colt 1911 cal. 45 ACP, and you are an expert shot.
You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.
What do you do?
Unload it right between the eyes
Now is the time.
Did anybody happen to see that Pelowsi is calling for firearm registration and is opposing the D.C. reform legislation as mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on the Heller case? Here we go… Not only are they giving the Supreme Court the finger, they clearly have no regard what so ever for the U.S. Constitution and the bill of rights.
havent heard that one yet wait doesnt she need to spend more taxpayer money for private jets for global warming talks or is she going to call lawbreakers patriots again
This is a good example of the differences between a Republic and a Democracy. In a democracy law, court decisions, etc. are irrelevant if not agreed with… Just heard it from NRA alert, so you won't see it on the news, spread the word.
I am glad in today's headlines the banks are challenging the government in the repayment of bailout money and turning over assets; fearing the adminstration will fire them and put esentially a government yes man in their positions. They are working to check the power grab of the adminstration. The greed of private industry needs to be regulated not controlled. Walt you do not need to take an oath to protect the Constitution, you are already doing it through your awareness and love of your country. Let them insult me and call me a "Teabagger"; I don't care… I am a Teabagger and damn proud of it. Don't tread on me!
Read, "To Lick the Feet of Our Well Born Masters" by my namesake John Humble 29 Oct 1787 in Bailyn, Bernard, Debates on the Constitution Vol. 1
It is very troubling that when there are tragic events that take place that the news media somehow can't do their JOB and report THE FACTS!. Instead they take tragic events and turn them into an attack against those that have never and will never break the law. FYI any time a gun is used in a crime, guess what IT IS A FREAKIN CRIME!!!!!
Why, if they are outraged by the "senseless deaths" don't they report on the thousands of children killed every month due to drunk drivers, or falls from heights? Both of which far out number deaths from firearms. .
If you make gun ownership illegal than no one should have them, right? How naive! I know it has been said but it bears saying again, IF YOU OUTLAW GUNS ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS!!!!!!!!!
It is time We The People take a stand for OUR RIGHTS and be heard and silence this ignorance!
GOD BLESS AMERICA
God bless you man, I have 3 cousins in the military, 2 currently serving in Iraq.I dont agree completely, but im understanding where your coming from and am more open to the other sides argument..It makes alot more sense now. Education is key, im down with that.
— On Sat, 4/11/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
Sorry it took so long, it wouldn't let me post for some reason
And it's also for future defense. One reason Japan never ever considered an invasion of mainland America was because they knew our populus was so well armed. And more on that point, the 2nd amendment was written to allow people to proetec themselves from the government. Thats the whole reason the entire constitution and bill of rights was written. So the right to bear arms and form an organized militia as a last resort to protecty ourselves from a goverment that has infringed our rights.
Now by no means am I saying we are there yet, but if you look at history totalitarian goverments come around right after the govt starts taking away the populus' weapons. And it's always done in baby steps. Now while YOUR intentions are only to get rid of asault rifles, someone will come along after you and take away semi automatic pistols, then any large caliber rifles, then anything except .22s (Jimmy I believe?).
So starting with taking away asault rifles is only the begining, not an end. A simpler solution is actually inforce the laws we currently have, not make more that won't be enforced. Because right now, the only people who follow gun laws are law abiding citizens.
sorry to say if the boby rush bill gets passed we are all screwed HD45 personally i wont register nor will i get a licencense from the fedral goverment
i have fought for this country and have been proud to do so until people tread on what i have fought for the constitution first and the men and women who fought alongside me
fortunatly my parents came here from europe under a facist regime in portugal
they taught me that this country you can do anything you want in this country as long as you work hard and play by the rules
we have been given the rules and now they want to change them in mid game granted there will always be nut jobs who own guns but regular law abiding people should not be held responsible for a few nuts
nor will i let people destroy the document or the way of life that so many of us vetrans have shed blood for and died for
they can have my guns when they can pry them from my cold dead fingers in hell
Amen brother!! Liberty or death,DON'T TREAD ON ME LIBERAL!….
The guy in Pittsburg was a defintely a nut job! Law enforcement is on our side. Law enforcement couldn't do their jobs without responsible citizens and responsible citizens will never be able to rely solely on Law Enforcement.
Yes, as you claim there will always be "nuts" that use guns in their crime. I am reminded this as I watched memorial's of the Virginia Tech massacre. I wonder how many of those innocent lives may have been saved if universities encouraged concealed carry on campuses. When was the last time a university in this Great Country established concealed carry classes or any type of firearms club. Students are compelled to study how to use condoms rather than the history of arms in this country?! What a travesty!
Firearm handling and safety should be mandatory to graduate from high school. It's ridiculous that any American may not possess the basic knowledge to at minimum make a firearm safe.
Walt1 great points, however the second amendment is an absolute right, not a privilege, but I see what your tyring to say…
It is a privilege that our founders gave us that right. They fore saw through study of history mans desire to control men. That is contrary to freedom. If my proposal is considered an infringement on freedom I stand down. My intention is to further protect the 2nd by way of the 10th and prepare us for another 200 years of freedom. Right now most gun owners think their right to bear arms is for personal protection or for hunting…it is not. Our public schools are not teaching our Constitution, nor the integrity and brilliance of our founders. Instead they are being taught our founding docs were written by slave owners with wooden teeth and powder wigs.
Agreed!! I got your point originally. Why didn't you put it this way to begin with?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Please read if you can in english if that is still be taught in our high schools where it says that the "right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms" not the right of the militia, nor that of the government military, but that of the people. You have to remember that this was written after a long and grueling war where regular civilians with their own rifles and pistols aided significantly in the war being won. So the writers of the Bill of Rights knew that it was important for the people to have their own weapons for, if nothing else, to insure that the government doesn't become tyrannical like the British had. Also consider this: in Australia the government, being fed up with gun violence, banned all fire arms; the following weeks and months showed that gun violence increased drastically. Why? Because the law abiding citizens turned in their weapons but the law breakers didn't and it just made it easier for them to rob and murder because they had the weapons and the general population did not. Also remember when a tyrant takes over the first thing they do is remove the right of the people to own guns because if the people cannot defend themselves it is easy to make them do whatever you want because they can't revolt.
Thomas Jefferson- "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither
inclined or determined to commit crimes. Such laws only make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assassins; they serve to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man
may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
(1764 Letter and speech from Jefferson quoting with approval an essay by Cesare Beccari)
George Washington- "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the
people's liberty teeth (and) keystone… the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable… more than
99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very
atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes,
we need them every hour."
(Address to 1st session of Congress)
About the "wonderful" show last night with Diane Sawyer and Guns………………………
First of all, Diane I'm an objective journalist Sawyer…wouldn't know facts if they bit her in the arse!
Second, what do you expect from ABC the All Barak Channel?
Third, Has She ever shot a gun or practiced shooting one?
Maybe she's not a "Responsible" gun owner,
Us who are RESPONSIBLE gun owners Know how to use them!
They will always show and report something that promotes their agenda, The facts be damned!
The truth
http://www.freedoms-fight.blogspot.com
Get Involved
http://www.calendar9-12.blogspot.com
<DIV>\”Ed how is that job with the Kenyan administration working out for you. Brady Bunch sending you checks yet. Pathetic LibTard!! Get some facts straight\”</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Hey buddy, that Kenyan is AMERICAS PRESIDENT. Dont let your hatred and ignorance makeyou forget that.I dont mind the disagreeing, but the racism i have no patience for. Go play with sharp objects in traffic. Is this what your party stands for??? Arent you the same person who just said u wanted me banned from here?? So your racist,ignorant, and non tolerant of views you disagree with. You probably call democrats traitors and commies right?? Yet you call our president the kenyan and wanna ban me for speaking my mind…your the definition of an anti-American.
— On Fri, 4/10/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
</DIV>
Your reply makes no sence here. I dont get the racism connection and I thought Obama was an American.
Give them an inch, give them a mile. any infringement on our rights by either side is wrong. People "held without Charges" should not get themselves in those situations in the first place?
People held without charges sgouldnt get themselves in that situation in the first place????? You mean they shouldnt be muslim, or shouldnt have the same name as a terrorist? And you blame rape victims for wearing short skirts too?
— On Sat, 4/11/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
I really like the way some sheeple in this country like to say that they are ok with citizens owning .22 rifles, tasers, etc. but that the "black rifles" or "assault rifles" should be banned. An assault weapon as it is defined by our fabulous government, is any rifle with a pistol grip, detachable magazine, flash hider, threaded barrel, and so on and so forth. This description includes both semi-auto and fully auto rifles. Full auto rifles are already highly restricted and illegal to own without special permits and fees. The semi-auto's are no different than their bolt action counterparts so far as lethality is concerned. A bolt gun can shoot the same caliber bullet as a semi auto gun and kill you just as dead.
Let's say that Assault weapons are good ol' American musclecars from the 60's and 70's. Now your .22 long rifle in bolt action configuration is your typical Ford Escort, Dodge Neon, or Chevy Cavalier. There is no difference in the function of both classes of cars, except one class looks cooler, holds value, and has collector appeal. The other is strictly utilitarian in nature.
Iroquois County, near the Indiana border. You?
St. Clair County, about 20 minutes from St. Louis. Brother, as far as I'm concerned they could draw up a new border along Interstate 72 through Springfield and they can keep their Chicago politicians!
72 actually goes around Springfield, kind like Chicago does in implementing state law……;)
Sangamon country here.
Well your TV thanks you because i think anyone who watched would have thrown a shoe or something at their tv set Hey wait maybe thats how they plan to stimulate the economy put on enough shows that we all have to replace our tvs lol.
still hope glenn gets the nra to debate the trainer the bethlahem officer and Katie Currick on the issue
I am so tired of this! The Founding Fathers not only wrote our land's ultimate law, The Constitution, but many of them went on to serve in the government they had just organized. They knew the importance of gun ownership (namely not simply for hunting, but for protecting one'sself, family,& property, but also to keep the government in it's place!) and yet they weren't afraid to be subjected to this amendment themselves. Common sense (remember that?) tells us that the guns do not harm anyone, it is the person controlling the gun! What it comes down to is the fact that the "politically correct" refuse to hold people RESPONSIBLE for their actions!!!! If we punished people properly we would not have the crimes being commited that we do! Hold people RESPONSIBLE! Common Sense (there's those words again!!)
I try to understand why a person would want an AK47 or an M16, but, then I also try to understand why a person would want a baseball card collection or a basket collection. I have no problem with someone owning guns, I think alot of people own them as a collection and that is fine with me. I also think that any gun that would be banned will just be that much more sought after on the black market, just like a rare baseball card. We will never stop guns from being a sport, hobby, or collection unless big brother totally bands all guns and comes to homes and takes them away. I dont own a gun, however it is our right to own one if we choose. We have a right to own a car, and if we drive drunk we could kill someone with it. So do we then ban cars, no, we make it a crime to drive drunk, but people do it anyway. Even if we take a persons drivers license away nothing stops them from getting drunk and killing someone with a car. Just my thought on this.
I like your line of thinking. Keep it up.
Its funny you bring up the alcohol comparison…it kills far more people than guns. I wrote a satire called "Common Sense Alcohol Control" which you can find here- http://waltswisdom.blogspot.com/ if you wish. The alcohol control I speak of in the paper is the same tactics the leftists are taking on guns. It is designed to let them see what it feels like when someone challenges one of their freedoms. The right to consume alcohol is a freedom but not one protected in the Bill of Rights like gun ownership.
Well put Indiana, objective, logical, simple. Hope everybody reads this, your keeping it real….
It is nice to see someone that is a non gun owner still stand up for the second amendment. Thanks Indiana. It is your type of thinking that we need. Just because it is not your cup of tea to own a gun doesn't mean you have to oppose it. However, for an investment purpose you might give it a try! Prices have skyrocketed lately and it could be a good return if they keep rising.
Keep up the very insightful posts.
Here is an idea- Since the second amendment was set in place in order to protect the people from tyranny, maybe we should add a few classes to the gun safety course…here is my recommendation.
Level 1 (any gun ownership)-A basic class on the Constitution, the Declaration of independence and Bill of Rights
Level 2 (advanced ownership .50 cal or full auto) Federalist Papers-Articles of Confederation-
This training is not intended to make ownership harder (but it will) but is intended to teach a, would be, gun owner what tyranny looks like. The second amendment is a privilege, an honor and a HUGE responsibility. It is the teeth of our Constitution.
The Second Amendment is an individual's right; privileges can be taken away. Second, why would the government want to educate the people in identifying tyranny? Especially when it came to understanding the true definition of the right to keep and bear arms? I agree with you that the people need to be informed of their rights and reminded of the principles that make this country great. So why make it part of gun safety training and not just an everyday exercise in democracy? Further, the Articles of Confederation did little to protect the rights of the people from being trampled on by other people. The Framers also recognized this excess of democracy and the that a majority of the people may become tyrannical.
Why make it part of gun ownership? Imagine all of those inner city gang bangers that would be learning the- what’s and whys- of this nation (maybe I dream too much). The more people that understand our brilliant and logical foundation of our nation the better…and give them guns. Perhaps after you pass the class the gov't could give you a M-16. Probably less than 5% of the people in this country understand what we are and why we are. As a matter of fact those who go through legal immigration channels know more about America than the average college graduate. Shouldn't those who are charged with upholding the Constitution (gun bearers) know what it says? Once the classes are passed and an oath to uphold is taken, the citzen would be free from ANY registration of any arms, and could carry concealed any time any where
Neither the Articles of Confederation nor the Federalist Papers are law, but they are valid evidence of the intents of our founders. Both of them prove they intended for us to be free…as free as we could manage…without dropping into anarchy.
The 2nd amendment is NOT a privilege; it is a right. Hence the term "Bill of Rights". Maybe you should sign up for Level 1 classes.
While I would very much support every citizen being better versed in civics, any restriction is an "infringement' As I read it, I have the right to hold and bear arms without restriction (includes a cannon, if I want).
I could teach the level one and two classes. Tell the Brownshirts when they come you have the right to bear arms (or a cannon). We do not have the expressed right to bear arms, for personal protection, for hunting or for the priveledge of collecting. Those are all value added's. We have the right to bear arms to protect ourselves from wayward leaders. We can not loose sight of our Constitution. Yes, something like this should not be needed if our Federal level representitives respected the Constitution; they don't. I certainlly hope a militia will never be needed, but the states do have the right. The USSR never invaded the US because the people had guns. If the people were organized as a militia, standing on the Constitution, would a tyrannt be more or less likley to try something funny?
When they came for the Jews, I did nothing because I was not a Jew………
Easy metzner, poor choice of words perhaps, but I believe Walt1 was trying to express the overall greatness and advantage of firearm ownership and rights, not lesson the second amendment in any stretch of the imagination. With the exception of this guy taking level 1 bill of rights class, your dead on. Firearm ownership should be unrestricted up to and including cannons, if wanted….. I appreciate your dilligence…
john humble is right it is not a privalage it is a right but i do agree with you during classes people should be more educated about the second amendment
the second amendment is NOT a priviledge
it is a RIGHT which the constitution recognizes as existing with or without the document
no infringement is acceptable under any circumstances , and the current level of infringement is unacceptable
The recent rise in gun violence is one of the best reasons to put more guns in the hands of the American citizens. It's a fact ~ Where there are more citizens armed; there is less crime.
You are absolutely right!
I can clearly see that government education has had it's intended results. Because so many people were never taught that the second amendment was added to the constitution to protect the people from the government, we see all of these absurd comments about how there is no reason to own firearms. If these same people applied the second amendment in the same way they apply the first amendment we would all be required to own firearms. Any attempt to limit or control ownership of firearms of any kind is absolutely just governments way of trying to get control of the people. The government that we have now is no longer a Republic, it is a Fascist government. It is no longer government of the people, by the people, for the people, the people are now just pawns for the government to control. The elected officials see themselves as royalty with no accountability and the people are just their pawns to control for their own needs.
Keep preachin' plowboy! You got it right,
I don't understand why anti-gun suporters think they have an end all solution to the gun violence problem.
If some how you managed to take away all the guns on the planet and keep any of them from being able to be made again, people are going to move to swords and knives. Then when you take those away they'll go to sharpend sticks and rocks. And good luck getting rid of those.
Guns arn't the problem, bad/evil people are the problem. They will always find a way to harm others, be it by gun, knife, sharp stick, car, poison, or what ever. And on the other side, the good people will ALWAYS look for ways to defend themselves.
I don't understand why anti-gun suporters think they have an end all solution to the gun violence problem.
If someone how you managed to take away all the guns on the planet and keep any of them from being able to be made again, people are going to move to swords and knives. Then when you take those away they'll go to sharpend sticks and rocks. And good luck getting rid of those.
Guns arn't the problem, bad/evil people are the problem. They will always find a way to harm others, be it by gun, knife, sharp stick, car, poison, or what ever. And on the other side, the good people will ALWAYS look for ways to defend themselves.
Hey anyone wants to join the NRA try this out, it's a free trail membership and will help the NRA fight guncontrol hungry politicians. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership….
Is it just me or is anyone else tired of all the liberals who could care less about principles,rights, and our Constitution? Can't they leave a good thing alone, and not get on here trying to show us the light of thier world? Honestly don't you axxxxxx's have something better to do? I hear CNN has an Obama speech on right now. He even has his own webpage that you can Blog on.
I carry a pistol wherever I go because a cop's too heavy. Remember, center mass shots and empty the gun on the intruder. Then re-load and fire again if neccessary. I will. Oh, comradeobama, don't show up here because I just don't think we'll have room for someone who would hide in the corner and let me protect them!!
Ya, Don't mess with our Constitution and right to bare arms. We want to be able to protect ourselves if we have to. Who wouldn't?
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep an bear Arms shall not be infringed." These powerful words, engraved in the only shield between us a Government that can choke all freedoms that are given by an Almighty God. For all tyrants will strive to deprive its people of Arms before attempting to deprive them of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
HOOOAAA! You hit the nail on the head my friend!
I owe you a double Thank You! First of all for your enthusiastic support of my comment, and second of all for your service to this Great Country. America's military is the greatest. Even with both hands "tied" behind the military's back, the great men and women that serve the American People can still get the work done!
If you have never seen this little Penn and Teller bit, it is worth seeing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM&fe...
That states it as plain as can be.
thats awesome. You know the bad part of it is our 2nd ammendment has allready been infringed by the fact that the weapons that we can posses cant hold up to an army.
thatn is what I have been saying ,we need to not only defend against further infringement , but be pushing for the repeal of unconstitutional and unlawful infringement that already exists today.
As a responsible gun owner and pro gun rights advocate I have to state this: (Please excuse my critism) However: I am gravely concerned when someone describes themself as fooling around with firearms. To me that statement reflects recklessness and is just the sort of language the anti-gun movement likes to latch onto in support of their cause. No pun intended: Do we really need to give them any more ammunition? Do we really need to boast about our "arsenals" in this forum? We need to think responsibly when it comes to defending our rights! I am not even going to go into your video.
Your right. I should have used a different word, because we know they take us out of context. What I should have said was, shoot, collect, and enjoy. But fooling around covers all those, in the circle I run with. You know the gun clinging, bible clinging types!
I have no problem with gun clinging, or bible clinging. As long as we continue to conduct ourselves responsibly as law abiding citizens we disarm the antis of their argument and make it harder for them to point their "agendized" finger at us it an attempt to lay blame for criminal behavior on innocent citizens. So please by alll means go out and "enjoy" your rights.
Anyone watch ABC's "If I Only Had a Gun"?
Maybe they should've called it, "If only no one had a gun"
The general gist of it was that if you own and lawfully carry a gun you'll freeze up when it's time to use it, oh and it's more likely to get you shot than save your life, and even if you do get the gun out and use it you'll probably only shoot a friend or family member. Then there was the segment on how easy it is to buy guns at gun shows, complete with the brother of a Virginia Tech victim doing the buying. Also, there was a segment where they left guns out where kids would have access to them and, surprise, they picked them up and played with them. There was more, but describing this much made me throw up in my mouth a little bit…… They really think we're a bunch of toothless idiots don't they?
I saw the commerical for that load of crap.I love how they take people who were never trained to use a gun and get those people to do reinactments. That and get these liberal college kids to say how bad they think guns are. Maybe they should look at countrys that do ban guns. They have more violent crimes with other weapons now. You know baseball bats, knives, and anything else they can get their hands on. If I had it my way everyone would be required to carry a gun, condition one, at all times everywhere they went. Even to Presidential canidates meetings. If you didn't have a weapon well you must be a Criminal so everyone would be watching you. Criminals wouldn't a problem because the good people would far outgun them. Just my two cents worth. Oh and the media does think Americans are idiots? Except for FOX usually. That Damn Red Eye show needs to go.
As a rational person I can only gather from your description that we are to lay down and become sheep in the face of imminent death. Did they "report" on what people are supposed to do when faced with a madman who is wantonly shooting the people around you. Am I just to patiently wait my turn? Do I ask for some time so I can call 911 in an effort to give myself a fighting chance? Do I wait for a law enforcement response? Wait for them to establish a perimeter, evacuate the surrounding area, assembly entry teams and begin hours of pointless attempts to establish communications for negotiations with someone who has already killed defenseless people and them himself? I have a law enforcement background, it takes one skilled person to stand up and stop the madness. In our homes in the middle of night or at the grocery store confronted with the threat of death, We the People do not have time to wait for a police response. We must act and I would rather have a slight chance then no chance at all. How do you feel ABC?
As a rational person I can only gather from your description that we are to lay down and become sheep in the face of imminent death. Did they "report" on what people are supposed to do when faced with a madman who is wantonly shooting the people around you. Am I just to patiently wait my turn? Do I ask for some time so I can call 911 in an effort to give myself a fighting chance? Do I wait for a law enforcement response? Wait for them to establish a perimeter, evacuate the surrounding area, assemble entry teams and begin hours of pointless attempts to establish communications for negotiations with someone who has already killed defenseless people and them himself? I have a law enforcement background, it takes one skilled person to stand up and stop the madness. In our homes in the middle of night or at the grocery store confronted with the threat of death, We the People do not have time to wait for a police response. We must act and I would rather have a slight chance then no chance at all. How do you feel ABC?
There is no reason to be upset by the agenda of the liberal media… is it really surprising? First, of all it is editorialized by design to influence and instill fear into the masses. Second, shows like "20/20" are not hard news programs that report on fact. Again, they have an agenda. Placing people unfamiliar with firearms in simulated situations where they are required to perform proficiently against trained aggressors? Irresponsible journalism. Its, simple, do not watch their network… Perhaps, this is why the big 3 major "news" networks are becoming less relevant. I switched them off long ago refusing to be a mindless slave to the will of the media. I do not need to be told what to think, I am a responsible adult; I think I can decide for myself. Therefore, they lose.
There is one thing that I can guarantee ABC (All Barack Channel) of: The only time I will freeze up when I am faced with the threat of death or bodily harm will be after I have eliminated the threat.
And I do freeze while changing the channel on my TV…I freeze just before passing over any ABC channel!
4 words:
Double Tap …..Center Mass!!
You can go to http://abcnews.go.com/2020/comments?type=story&am... to record your comments on the ABC 20/20 special "If I only had a gun"?
What earth do you live on? Shall Not Be Infringed- Man that is really hard to understand, well I guess only for LibTards anyway.
You beat me to it. It is not a "privilege" it is a RIGHT!
What I see happening here is a lack of vision. The anti gun people just don't get it. If guns are made illegal, only those of us who abide by the law will not have guns. The problem is that the CRIMINALS(those who do not abide by the laws) are the the ones doing all the shootings, along with a few nut jobs. Why would anyone want to be left defenseless, the police can't protect you.
As far as an assault rifle ban goes, who decides what is or isn't an assault rifle?(M16's are not available to the public, only to the military). The Clinton assault rifle ban did nothing to lower crime, so why waist the time and effort.
The 2nd amendment guarantees me the RIGHT to keep and bear arms, and I will continue to do so and fight to the end anyone who tries to take that right away. You who think we need more gun control need to take a look at the United Kingdom. Since there gun bans went into effect in 1996, the crime rate has doubled simply because the people do not have the freedom to protect themselves from the criminal.
You make guns illegal, then only criminals will have guns.
What part of that do you not understand? I invite you to read the book entitled "More Guns, Less Crime" by John R. Lott, Jr. It shows how in states with less gun control laws, there is less crime.
Absolutley if you want an M16 you can get one on the black market. But to do that you have to have criminal connections. So if you go that route you probably are buying to kill someone. Now if I (law abiding citizen) wants one to protect myself from someone who just bought one of the black market I cant. So now it pits me (law abiding citizen) against (Joe Crackhead) He's got an M16 I've got a 9MM pistol. Those arn't good odds. And when the news reports me as a victim of a shooting our beloved "leaders" will use that as headline to further thier antigun agenda. Till the next (law abiding citizen) has no 9MM to defend himself but (Joe crackehead) Still has his trusty (untraceable) M16
I will agree with everything you stated, that is why I do not like an assault weapons ban. The criminal element will have access to these types of weapons regardless if they are banned or not. If I can legally get my hands on a m15 , sks , or something similar, it would even the playing field, so to speak.My biggest concern is the fact that those who propose this ban have no clue as to what constitutes an assault weapon. By their definition, my Ruger 10/22 is an assault weapon, and I find that absurd.
I also point out that banning hi capacity mags is useless, I can change out one in less than 2 seconds, so it don't relay matter as long as one has several magazines with him.(I carry at least 2 and one in the gun)
Hello Rich,
Like you I only watched the first 20 min. With their ratings and viewership down I half expected to see something a little more balanced. Unfortunately for me =) I'll never know how the last half played out.
I think people see your points, it's just that we don't agree because they are wrong.
LOL. They are wrong because you dont agree or because you spoke to God and he told you?
— On Fri, 4/10/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
Nah, I don't need God to tell me you are a pinhead. I'd call that a self-evident truth.
Ok so your just refusing to even see the other side, how unusual. see no evil hear no evil huh?
— On Fri, 4/10/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
You don't seem to realize that in AMERICA you can own almost any type of firearm you wish, as long as you pass the background check I don't see why you shouldn't. In most states you can legally own a machine gun (I own several), a suppressor(I own several), and in all states you can own war birds (I own a P-51 Mustang), and you can own tanks(I am in the process of restoring my M4 Sherman), you can own just about whatever your heart desires.
Why should we limit what the law abiding people can do, because of what a criminal does? The whole notion of punishing me(banning the guns I enjoy fooling around with), because of a crime committed by someone else, is just about as UN-AMERICAN as it gets. What ever happened to due process?
This is what law abiding men and women do with "assault weapons"!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdXw-xRKdmU
<DIV>I UNDERSTAND THAT..WHAT IM SAYING IS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH LICENSES THAT BUY GUNS LEGALLY AND MAKE THEM UNTRACEABLE AND BRING THEM TO ..NYC FOR EXAMPLE AND SELL THEM ILEGALLYTO ANYONE: KIDS,DRUG DEALERS, GANG MEMBERS ETC. THATS GREAT THAT YOU HAVE GUNS, CONGRATULATION, HOORAY FOR YOU.</DIV> <DIV>WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THE SUPPOSED LAW ABIDING CITIZENS THAT PASS BACKGROUND CHECKS GO BUY GUNS AND SELL THEM ILEGALLY TO KIDS.</DIV> <DIV>Maybe you understand the problem now?
— On Fri, 4/10/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
</DIV>
You know your name really shouldn't have American anywhere in it. You talk about 16 year olds with ar 15s like the AR is the problem. What if all they could get were single shot weapons? Do you think that would stop them? How about blaming the piss poor mental capacity of the criminal and not the tool. If your house caught on fire because you left the oven on would you blame the manufacturer? Go get some common sense knocked into you.
you know that this site is pro america, ed, that means that anyone can say whatever they want to. freedom of speech is a good thing. how would you like it if you could not voice your opinion here? i know that "we cling to our guns and religion", do you know why? let me explain to you anyway. the government has been nipping away at our rights since way before i was born"i am 27", the fact of the matter is that you have to draw line somewhere, and when they start on the right to keep and bear arms when will they stop?does the second amendment say "exept cannons" no i do not think so. as far as bush and what he did, that is not the point, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. edthecommy
DO U EVEN KNOW WHAT A COMMUNIST IS???
— On Fri, 4/10/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
hitler, stahlin, THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, oh yes i can type in caps too! what is your problem really? do you not like the fact that this group is standing up for what america was founded on? comunism and socialism are near the same. it all goes back to the golden rule " he who has the gold makes the rules" or you can just print it, any other questions
Do you? I'm gona think since you think guns kill people and if we get rid of them people will no longer die you probably have a similarly week grasp on the history of Communism as well…
I shouldnt have to explain that to you man.
— On Fri, 4/10/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
No matter how much the military members disagree with the government, they will not go against the President of the United States, ya know that guy they all call the Commander in Chief. And the term armed revolt will not be a good idea. That idea will get you killed faster than running into a starved panther exhibit with a new meat coat… Saying you want to go up against the president with armed revolt is a way of having everything you wish to have done suppressed.
I hate what is going on with the government. Armed revolt is not the first line of action. I hope you can understand that Revolt of any kind usually ends badly for all involved.
better to die defending liberty than to live as a coward and a slave.
To all the people on this site that think the world is a misunderstood rose garden and everything would be darn peachy if the world was rid of all dangerous things. See if you can understand this ' A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be INFRINGED.' after you find the definition of infringed look up why in 1787 our founders debated the ratification of the Constitution at the Constitutional Convention were the 2nd Amendment was adopted. Then go live in a concrete bunker away from all us gun toting lunatics.
I don't know if all liberals are as open-minded as your friend. I'd like to think they are, so it's worth a try. We really have to set a good example for others. There's too many horrifying stories in the news about the misuse of guns, but there's nothing about the correct use of guns. Too bad the news plays up the negative and ignores the positive.
watch tonight on abc's 2020 program they are spreading anti gun prpoganda the segment is called IF I ONLY HAD A GUN they plan on pitting regular non gun owning(untrained)people in a mock situation against trained law enforcement personel to show that a gun wouldnt help you in most situations please watch it(even if like me you end up shouting at the tv like a madman) and find the faults in there theories and we will post them and try to get glenn and the nra to challenge 2020 to a debate on the issue..thanks and god bless
ps today is fri 4/10/09
Such a production would actually offer more support for our position that they realize. They will be demonstrating the failure that is the policy of demonizing and prohibiting weapons handling and experience. Of course, arriving at this position would take independent thought and reasoning capabilities……
according to a firearms dealers association sales are up 500% from last year.That should tell you something but guess they still have to try to pander to their audience.
Well its pretty obvious that someone who has never owned a gun would loose a gun battle with a police officer. Since most gun owners are familiar with firearms and usually have good marksmanship, and since most criminals don't have rigorous firearms training like the police, this is hardly a fair comparison.
i just watched the first 15 min. and i am sory to say i shut it off i realy wanted to watch and evaluate the bias well even though they of course claimed at the beginning that it wasnt an issue about the right to bare arms but weather it would help you.so it starts off with a certified firearms instructor(trains police in fireams handling) and a bethlahem pa police officer(I live near bethlahem and plan on writting a letter to the police commisioner of bethlahem of my dissapointment that an oficial officer was part of a biased propaganda piece) give a bunch of ammetures glocks with paint bullets and sit them in a room only one has a gun at a time the trainer busts in and starts shooting(knowing who has the gun) and of course the results are as they planned (I mean come on the first guy was wearing an oversized t shirt over his holster no wonder he never got the gun from under the shirt) and so it went for all 8 of the volenteers.God I almost threw my boot at my lcd tv and that would have made me even more pissed off plus with all the stories in the \”armed citizen\” that shows success of individuals armed fending off attackers they only picked the failures.
You can go to http://abcnews.go.com/2020/comments?type=story&am... to record your comments on the ABC 20/20 special "If I only had a gun"?
Thanks that is a big help I have always felt that we should hold not only the govt. but the press to be responsible.
bernie71 amazingly I went to the link and it is currently unavailable I will try again later could be that they stepped on the wrong toes and have been overwhelmed with comments.
Let's say we let a state or two….California and New York??….have temporary gun control for a limited amount of time. I guarantee people in those states will be the most victimized (aside from their current tax victimization, of course) population in the history of the country. Then politicians will say citizens of California and New York have been victimized because of the weapons in surrounding states. Then they'll take away all guns in the US….the violence will still escalate, as it has in Australia since gun control was enacted. Politicians will then say that we need to get rid of ALL weapons in the world. We will do that, but Russia and China will then (after having pretended to disarm) invade our country. We will hit them with tree branches, but I'm seeing a pretty unhappy ending for the US.
NY and CA already have the most draconian gun laws in the nation. As do Washington DC and Chicago. DC and Chicago have some of the worse gun related murder rates in the nation. To logical people like you and I, it shows us that gun laws don't work because they're not respected by criminals. To the Brady campaign, they simply make up the excuse that the gun laws would work were it not for neighboring jurisdictions with more relaxed laws.
Very good points! Like I said in my post, no one is going to be happy until we are disarmed. Then only the criminals will be happy.
I like how they modified the picture on the LA Times report to make only the barrel of the gun look bigger. If you look at the containers just above the barrel you can see that they used a fish eye lens. Not that the .50 calliber revolver is small by any means, but the photographer did a good job making in look more omonious without also enlarging the hands holding the gun. Great picture!
Gun ownership is a big responsibility that I don't take lightly, and anyone with one should feel the same way(sadly not all do… However most of us do).
I still will never understand why poloticians want to take the right to carry a gun and protect yourself away from law abiding citizens when it's the criminals that are the problem. That's a simple statement, but common sense. Have we lost that completely???
Gun violence hasn't increased, the reporting of gun violence has…
Your right, he is bi racial, but in all honesty, if he was born 70 years ago in the south what would he be??? If you saw him on the street what would you say he is??? exactly. And i do get your point, but if you think theres poeple out there that arent mad hes president your kidding yourself.
— On Fri, 4/10/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
….good mornin', "ED"….I also see your point, however, in this PC world we NOW live in (not 70 years ago)…I would think that I would have heard at least ONE media person make the distinction that the big "O" is our FIRST BI-RACIAL PRESIDENT…I have NOT…thanx for your input "ED"….an INDEPENDANT AMERICAN…P.S.and , NO "ED", I'm NOT kid'n myself…I know that there are a plethora of folks that are MAD he is the President, but why do they jump on the "RACIAL" train…can we , YES, we – just be upset with his apparent agenda as opposed to cause he is BI-RACIAL/BLACK ????…come on "ED", think about it ???
Kung Fu? Thats funny. The bottom line is evil. If one man wants what another man has and the means to take it, weather it be a gun, or in absense of a gun, physical or tactical advantage; he will. Gun control is anti-equalization. If rocks are the only weapon left on earth, would be American leauge pitchers, would control the world. Guns put Granny on equal with the biggest strongest man on earth. That is equality.
3 Illinois cities voted to see themselves removed from Cook county Illinois.
Which cities would that be?
I think the hundred or so counties of Illinois should vote to remove themselves from Cook county as well. But thats just one "Ignorant downstater's" opinion.
what's up brother, where at downstate?? I feel your pain!!
I share their senitiments!! Here in Southern Illinois, it's a totally different world than up there. They run the show up in Cook County and we're left with their political fallout down here. Their tax and spend policies have done wonders for our state with the defecit running upwards of $10 billion (pretty sure that's accurate). Then right next door to me you've got East St. Louis where the government has to take over the schools because of the poor standards and corruption. FBI raids on city officials offices and homes are commonplace. Drugs, shootings, prostitutes- you name it, we got it. All thanks to Chicago politics, along with the democratic political machine here in St. Clair County, and the corruption within our state government. An absolute nightmare!!!