How Much Money Can You Earn? Barney Frank Wants To Set Those Limits
Posted by the912project on March 31, 2009 · 308 Comments
The new bill proposes sweeping government involvement with RETROACTIVE penalties.
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How in the world Rep. Barney Frank continues to get elected is beyond me. Even in Massachusetts you would think there would be at least a few people who stand for something besides incoherent nonsense. Not only is there a wide variety of Congressmen and women who are horribly corrupt, the worst criminals are in control. If President Obama is not intent upon ruining the business sector, Congress certainly is. These people are so damaged that the only solution is for them to either be charged with something, or sent home by means of election. With the Democrats in control, I do not see any of these people being legally held accountable for their actions. Senator Dodd may be the first victim.
It is very frustrating to see that these people appear to not realize it was all their regulating that caused this mess.
Not sure I understand your position. The U.S. Constitution expressly empowers Congress "[t]o regulate commerce . . . among the several states", and to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution" that power. For over 200 years, Congress has been exercising that power and has been doing so in ways that necessarily effect private businesses. Sometimes the effects are to augment profitabiity in some business and/or industries, and at the expense of others. Other times, the opposite effect results.
Now, people may quite reasonably dispute whether a given regulation of commerce is necessary and proper. But that does not mean that under the U.S. Constitution, Congress has no right to effectuate such regulation.
So, are you proposing an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, redacting portions of Art. I ?
I wonder if this wage story is another Washington misdirection, to make us concern ourselves with this issue while they are sneaking something hugh by us unoticed – possibly like Obama in Europe giving up our sovereignty.
I will let Reagan speak for me, as it sums up what I believe:
From "The Speech, 1964
Not too long ago, two friends of mine were talking to a Cuban refugee, a businessman who had escaped from Castro, and in the midst of his story one of my friends turned to the other and said, "We don't know how lucky we are." And the Cuban stopped and said, "How lucky you are? I had someplace to escape to." And in that sentence he told us the entire story. If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.
And this idea that government is beholden to the people, that it has no other source of power except the sovereign people, is still the newest and the most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man.
This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.
You should always beware people in positions of incredible power telling you that others (but not themselves) are "the elite".
It is worth observing that Reagan's speech should be located within a long and horrible history of U.S.-Cuba relations. Since the decline of the Spanish empire, the U.S. has constantly sought to colonize Cuba and keep it within the U.S. sphere of domination and exploitation. The colonial impulse stretches far back and is part of the larger project of Western European powers (but NOT the general population) plundering the Western Hemisphere.
The prevailing powers within the U.S. never really gave a damn about Cuba (or Guatemala, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama, etc.) except insofar as it could provide cheap markets, cheap raw materials and cheap labor.
None of this has to do with the fact that Cuba is now run under a repressive dictatorship. The U.S. gov't has noo problems with authoritarian dictatorships, so long as they remain open to U.S. investment.
Finally, none of this has ANYTHING to do with what the decent citizens of America want. For the greater part of America's history, the brutal practices exacted upon regions of Latin America by the U.S. gov't have gone largely unknown to U.S. citizens, who would be appalled if they knew what their own gov't was doing.
p.s. The Reagan administration's record in Central America is one of the most shameful in U.S. history. You may be old enough to recall that the Reagan decade opened with the ArchBishop in El Salvador being murdered in cold blood while giving mass, by members of the U.S. backed right-wing death squads who were carrying out what the Arch Bishop called "a massacre of the flower of our youth". It closed with the murder of four nuns by the same death squads. In between, the U.S. gov't armed, trained, supplied and directly participated in a relentless war that left three countries destroyed (El Salvador, Nicaragua and Honduras), killed several hundred thousand civilians, and produced between 2-3 million refugees. The official enemy was "the Communists" but nobody (least of all Latin Americans) believed that for a second. As usual, the real enemy was national self-determination that took a path opposed to subordination to U.S. control and power. Therefore, the usual victims of the U.S.-supported attack were church groups, peasant cooperatives, labor organizations, student groups, the independent media, etc.
Of course, all of this is under a virtual ban in the U.S. mainstream intellectual culture and media.
Reagan's words are pretty. That is typical for politicians, many of whom like to strike heroic poses and make fancy speeches designed to inspire audiences. Unfortunately, Reagan's deeds are often at odds with his words.
For example, in 1982 Reagan removed Saadam from the official U.S. gov't list of states practicing terrorism. This was so that Reagan could provide weapons, including biotoxins, to Saadam to use against Iran and the Kurds. Saadam did exactly that, which the U.S. knew and later confirmed.
Saadam, nonetheless, stayed off of the list of terrorist states while Reagan remained in office.
You may be interested to know that when Saadam was brought to trial in 2004 (if memory serves) he was tried for his crime of gassing the Kurds in 1982 — a crime for which he was found guilty and sentence to hanging.
In brief, Reagan deliberately and with cold calculation removed Saadam from the list of terror states, precisely so Saadam could receive biological warfare weapons that were to be used against official U.S. .enemies — the use of which weapons later served as the basis for the crimes for which Saadam was hanged.
I agree with you, but unfortunately, someone elected them and they are there now crafting the laws that are being forced down our thoats.
Bawney Fwank now finks Wepubwicans suffur fwom a psycowogical pwobwem. It comes fwom having owr secuwity bwankets taken away too erwy……hhhhhhhhhh…Thank you, Dr. Weenie……
It would be great if you could actually do that. The problem is that their salary is such a small portion of the money that they receive. When they get to the Hill, the lobbiest just start throwing cash at them to try and achieve their means. That's where the serious drive is to become a Senator or Congressman. The graft and corruption in DC is unequalled anywhere else is this country. Barney has 37 years of living that lifestyle!
You say: " Blaming evil corporate greed is a red herring, designed to instill hatred and breed class warfare."
First, corporations are institutions; they are not capable of "greed". That said, corporations function institutionally to maximize market share and profit. They do so however they can, regardless of the consequences — even regardless of the consequences to itself. (Witness the collapse of the mortgage securities market.)
I got news for you; class warfare exists and has been ruthlessly wage by the rich for decades. The rest of us are simply trying to defend ourselves.
Class antagonism is a reality. It does not exist simply because I point out the structural disparities in the political-economic system.
You surmise that I am "disdainful of the entire capitalist system" Listen; phrases like "entire capitalist system" are pretty darn meaningless; it's just an expression that substitutes one obscurity in the place of another. If you want to get somewhere in understanding the world, start by questioning the very words you use in describing reality, and whether reality merits the use of those words.
You say: "By the way, where do all those hard-working Americans get their jobs from? (Hint: Business) Have we lost all sight of that?"
I believe you have it backwards. Businesses ARE the hard-working Americans. Without people to perform the work, there would be no businesses, period. The curious thing is that this is so obvious, yet you fail to see it. talk about loosing sight!
To post responses to all of your rantings above would take too much of my time. I will say this: You are one angry person who fails to allow for the opinions of others. The arrogance you display is very sad…for you. One question: do you always consider yourself the smartest person in every conversation you have? You leave the impression that you have that opinion about yourself. You can disagree with someone without sarcasm and without demeaning the opinions of others. Please try it sometime.
Of course there are functions of government that we all need. The examples you gave are some of them. Funny how you did not mention the military as one of those necessities. I wonder why that is?
In the preamble, which is only to be used as a guide in deciding constitutionality, it does state "promote the general welfare"…that is not the same as "serving the public good" as you mean it…talking money from those YOU believe have not "earned" it and giving it to others YOU deem worthy.
I disagree. I allow for the right of others to express their opinions. I simply challenge the legitimacy of those opinions with which I disagree, and request that those opinions be provided reasonable justification. That impulse seems consistent with every citizen's responsibility.
You say, "military" is a gov't necessity. I think you mean "defense" ( again, this is in the first sentence of the Constitution.) The distinction is significant and, in the context of your reply, a telling one. It is axiomatic that every gov't benefits from a defense — that includes police depts. in small towns as well as a nat'l defense. That said, the U.S. gov't outspends the entire world combined in military expenditures. The U.S. enjoys unparalled natural advantages — 3,000 miles of coastline of the east and west, with two oceans as borders, a relatively demilitarized and compliant neighbor to the north (Canada), with no threat at all from the South (Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, etc.
To focus on the absence of "the military" in my post seems rather trivial and beside the point — especially since _I_ was not the one decrying the gov't.
re. "promote the general welfare" . . . I honestly have no idea where you are coming from when you say ".that is not the same as "serving the public good" as you mean it…talking money from those YOU believe have not "earned" it and giving it to others YOU deem worthy."
I never said anything about "giving" anything to others I deem worthy. We are talking about the fact that the Constitution provides for (1) promoting the general welfare and (2) creating a Congress that is constitutionally empowered to effectuate the general welfare (i.e., the public good) by means of the tax power.
This is a simple enlightenment principle, and one that has been adopted in societies in one form or another since before recorded history. You don't even need the Constitution to tell you that the purpose of gov't is to provide a means whereby individual human beings can augment their individual and communal aspirations.
Anyway, good luck trying to convince tens of millions of your fellow Americans that the U.S. gov't — THEIR gov't — is not supposed to serve the public good. That's like telling me that my fire dept. is not supposed to put out fires.
I will let Reagan speak for me, as it sums up what I believe:
(From "The Speech" 1964)
"Not too long ago, two friends of mine were talking to a Cuban refugee, a businessman who had escaped from Castro, and in the midst of his story one of my friends turned to the other and said, "We don't know how lucky we are." And the Cuban stopped and said, "How lucky you are? I had someplace to escape to." And in that sentence he told us the entire story. If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.
And this idea that government is beholden to the people, that it has no other source of power except the sovereign people, is still the newest and the most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man.
This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves."
You say: I wish the gov't would ignore me and stop trying to decide what is best for me".
Not sure what that is supposed to mean. Can you decide which OTC medications are safe to consume? Do you wish to completely do away with the FAA? How would a completely "free market" airport operate? What about speed limits? Do you think that the gov't is interfering with your freedom by posting a 10 mph speed limit at school crossings? Sure, you think you can determine on your own which speeds are safe to drive, and which places on the road require you to come to a stop. Are you honestly proposing that society would be better if we simply left all such decisions up to millions of commuters?
I am not envious. Envy presupposes that one resents what another has. Since, I agree the greed is immoral, I do not aspire to greed. I therefore cannot envy that to which I do not aspire.
I don't think you literally mean what you say: "I would never begrudge someone else's success or wealth". "Begrudge" means "to look upon with disapproval. Suppose that another's success or wealth was dervied from engaging in immoral or reprehensible conduct. For example, suppose my wealth was derived from marketing child pornography in countries where it is not illegal? Can you honestly say that you would not look upon my wealth with disapproval, knowing that every penny of my millions was gotten by exploiting children?
Who am I to say that "gain is wrong"? Who is anybody to say anything? I mean, what kind of a question is that? We all have the right to take positions on the issues.
That said, "gain is wrong" (to adopt your phrase) when "gain" is predicated on an economic system that confers fabulous wealth and power on huge financial institutions, and at the expense of tens of millions of hard working Americans who are ignored by the very gov't that is intended to serve the public good.
Like Jesus, I happen to believe that riches beyond the dreams of avarice is immoral in the face of want. But then, I suppose Jesus was a Marxist-Leninist who was "jealous" of the rich and powerful, right?
I believe that Jesus teaches to the individual, not the collective, so no, I do not believe he was a Marxist. Each man shall stand in judgement BY HIMSELF. Jesus does teach that greed is immoral, that a rich man may have a harder path to fully serve Him. But does He not also teach that envy is immoral too?
I am not wealthy, far from it actually, but I would never begrudge someone else's success or wealth.
Also, our government is not intended to "serve the public good". It is designed to protect our liberty and our freedom…and I agree with you that lately, it has been ignoring that purpose. We are better served by a government that just leaves us the heck ALONE. I wish the government would ignore me and stop trying to decide what is best for me. I can do that on my own. I think you can decide for your life too.
By the way, where do all those hard-working Americans get their jobs from? (Hint: Business) Have we lost all sight of that?
You say: " our government is not intended to "serve the public good".
The first sentence of the U.S. Constitution states: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Can you honestly believe that the foregoing sentence means that OUR gov't is NOT intended to serve the public good?
The Constitution is established "in order to promote the general welfare"; it does so by establishing the form of gov't under which we live. (Have you actually read the Constitution, from beginning to end?)
How does one establish a gov't "to promote the general welfare" without serving the public good?
I never told you that you did not have a right to take a position on any issue. That is supposed to be what this website is about. You may be better served not to be so sensitive to disagreement.
Am I to gather from your response then, that you do not believe in capitalism? Whenever I hear ANYONE say that our economic system "confers fabulous wealth and power on huge financial institutions" "at the expense of tens of millions of hard working Americans" I am pretty sure they are disdainful of the entire capitalist system. Blaming evil corporate greed is a red herring, designed to instill hatred and breed class warfare. What would you have, the government deciding who "gets" to be wealthy?
Now see, this is the problem. I observe an elementary moral truism: that greed at the expense of others runs contrary to simple human decency, compassion and concerns for others. And what do you surmise? That I "do not believe in capitalism".
If something like "capitalism" even existed, then we might have something to discuss. There is nothing, however, remotely "capitalist" about the economic "system" that prevails nationally or internationally today. What we have today in the U.S. is a form of quasi state-capitalism, where the gov't functions to cater to, enhance and protect the interests of private profit, but then socializes the costs and the risks. This has been going on for decades. The S&L bailout in the 80s is a perfect example.
"The gov't" has ALWAYS decided who gets wealthy! So, for example, when Reagan erected trade tariffs against imported steel in the 1980s, he was determining that the U.S. steel industry would get a shot in the arm, while undermining foreign markets. Newt Gingrich represented a congressional district that received among the largest gov't handouts in the country. The executives and shareholders at the military defense contractors in Cobb County, Georgia got filthy rich from it — from the proifts taken straight out of your tax dollars. No bid contracts. No free market. Pure gov't handouts, straight from the U.S. taxpayer and into the pockets of the rich owners of Honeywell, Textron, Hughes, and the rest.
So, yeah, I'd like the gov't to play some roll in decideing who gets wealthy! I'd like the gov't to stop ripping off the public and rolling over for the insurance, pharmaceutical, aerospace and miltiary industries.
Well now, I would say this is absolute proof that what the MSM is doing works!! To not cover ALL sides of what the crooked, unethical, amoral politicians are doing assists the obama (not capitalized–no respect) administration, pelosi, reid, dodd, frank, schummer, and all the rest who works to further their One World agendas and when it happens, constitutional rights are lost, they will have a deer-in-the-headlights look on their faces and will ask, "when did that happen?" It is a shame. These facists that are rapidly changing our country from the inside out are succeeding and we will have folks like those your friend mentioned to thank for it going unchecked. One thing that opened the eyes of some I know like that was to send them an email with the link to The Obama Deception. Some will say it is those weirdo conspiracy theory nuts. But they can't say they were not warned.
There is a reason why so many people remain uniformed. It is by Liberal and Mainstream Media Design. This has been happening on a Grand Scale for quite some time but recently has become noticeably acceIerated within the last year or so. Local news outlets alternate regularly between running meaningless puff pieces and outright propaganda masquerading as news. All so very fascist too, always creating a crisis with the evil conservative to blame and promising Government to come riding to the rescue. Many foolish people allow themselves to be spoonfed like mindless machines. I agree that informed minds need to become Messengers. Knowledge is a key component for freedom. We need to remove their Koolaid tubes and wait for them to come to.
Perhaps because he sounds like a cartoon character people think that he must be harmless?
I hope everyone is reaching out to their friends, family, neighbors, waiters, dry cleaner, accountant, etc.. and promoting this sight. I have and will continue to enlist people!
This movement is important and if we are not growing in numbers we will lose momentum. Momentum is a funny thing, while it is hard to obtain it is very easily lost.
Please tell everyone you know to visit this thie site, together we can change the future of our country!
God Bless America!!!
Mark Lavin is a constitutional lawyer. he is the author of the current #1 book on the New York Times best seller list. The name of the book is Liberty and Tyrany. Evidently a great book. He has a radio show and is very good.
This is so ridiculous that it is somewhat funny. I mean…..how the heck do they call it the "Pay for Performance Act," without thinking to themselves. Don't they know that the polls show their performance to be abysmal. They are probably thinking: "Maybe this is not such a good name for this bill because the People might want us to fall under these rules." I personally think a buck per year for our Congressman and Senators is overpaying them.
Until they live by the 912 principles and values, they shouldn't get squat. It's not hard to find their fax numbers. Let those fax machines start humming. Let them know how you feel, every time they violate the 912 principles and values. By the last website count, there are over 344k registered on this web site. If everyone faxed a letter regularly that would probably get their attention. You can count on me to do it….Will You?
Then……can you say "Tax Day Tea Party!"
Ok, how about this? We limit the pay and benefits of ALL member of Congress until the economy is fixed. Maybe they'd like a taste of their own medicine. My grandmother used to say, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander!", and in this case it most certainly is!
Then again, maybe they are all in cahoots with the chosen one and his mindless followers.
That's what I say too, Islandsox. More people need to hear what is going on, and one of the best places to
find the most info is Fox news. There are other sites, there is Rush Limbaugh. We definetly have to spread
the news any way we can.
Simply BRILLIANT!! I really think it will eventually come to something like you have described. It's unfortunate, but it appears to be the reality. We can only pray that somehow enough of us come together in the principles and values that made this country great {Our Constitution and belief in God).
Wow. I am a fourteen year old whose whole life is pretty much consumed by sports, and who has no political experience whatsoever, but I can tell that this is completely wrong. If a teenage jock from a town most people have never heard of can see what the Obama administration is doing wrong, why can't they tell. " "Common sense is not so common." …..Voltaire
How true it is in our Government" I'm with you all the way, old marine.
I think glenn Beck slobbering all over Colbert's favorite fat man, ol' barney's birthday cupcakes rendering them nonedible was enough to earn him a facebook corner and a cap on his big $$$ pay, don't you all think? Only in Barney land. I am sure that President Obama would disapprove of such mean-spirited spitting. AWWWW too bad, Barney. Don't worry all you Daddy Warbucks out there……there are no more Lil' Orphan Annie's anymore to brighten your day. You don't need all that big salary. Uncle Barney and his gestapo storm troopers want you all to cough up your money so that Punjab can 'share the wealth' much more that he already does.
Here's a new bill Mr Barney Frank its called WE THE PEOPLE ACT OF 2009, we get to decide what you guys should earn in a year,whether you get free medical,cost of living raises,retirement benefits.
And I say NO, you dont even deserve 1 dollar for the year and all those perks, forget them, you want them take them out of the stimulus bill you passed that 7 dollars should cover it.
And by the way we are thinking of making you step down from your thrown and do volunteer work for we the people!
Barney Frank has no fear of the people he represents. He has been doing the same crap for so long and has gotten away with it. He has no worries either , while we are all hoping and praying that somehow this country can get turned around, he was on TMZ last night. They asked him what he was doing for his birthday, his reply was that he and his partner are going to go out and have a quiet dinner. How sweet…..Maybe his partner that works at the pottery store can talk some sense into the man……… over their quiet dinner. I hope he is frugal with his money because he sure isn't with the taxpayers money!!!!
It's more like 1000 Enrons in a 5-pound bag.
You HAVE TO BE ILLEGAL to get away with it. But I think it makes a nice mental picture, seeing a politician ALL FREAKED OUT OVER THE DISPLEASURE OF HER CONSTITUENCY. I like it very much.
I would like to move to your country and bring my evil guns and conservative ways. Where do I sign up?
How nice, Barney Frank, Timmy Geithner and the rest of the tax cheating, corrupt team of economy destroyers get to decide and pass the new laws on these limitations. As a few of us know, some of these individuals are in part to blame for the banking and housing collapse in this country. Something needs to be done but these are not the people that should be doing it. Greed, power, corruption and stupidity are the things that brought us to this collapse and allowed these socialists to get elected. I hope people wise up in the 2010 election but at the speed that they are moving to pass these things it may be too late.
I know of a few kool-aid drinkers who are starting to see the light (albeit with my incessant reminders). We just have to remain grounded in our principles and let our voices be heard and we can win back some ground in 2010.
Don't you think it's interesting that they want to limit salaries for busnesses, but continue to vote themselves raises.
and don't forget all the benefits barney and the rest enjoy including retirement that nothing else compares to!
I think this would be an amicable separation. Sounds fair to me.
Happy birthday Barney. I hope the good folks of MA give you a well deserved retirement in 2010. However we think that your retirement pay and bennifits will be above the limits and should be cut about 90%.
He was definitely responsible, maybe we should go and protest outside of his house and demand he pay us all back for our lost retirements and 401 K. Mexican illegal immigrants did that to Diane Feinstein and she was freaked!
~In addition, the bill gives Geithner the authority to decide what pay is "unreasonable" or "excessive." And it directs the Treasury Department to come up with a method to evaluate "the performance of the individual executive or employee to whom the payment relates."~
I'm wondering when Mr. Geithner might find the time to do all this additional work since he can't handle all the balls he has in the air now. Not to mention the fact that other countries can't even get them to answer the phone at the Treasury Department because of the lack of staffing.
I was never so shocked as the first time I saw barney Frank, I swear I thought the news was showing a mentally challenged person speaking in the Senate. I cannot believe this man was ever elected. He is without a doubt one of the worst traitors in the Senate. If he comes for my check, he will have to take it out of my cold dead hand! Enough is enough!
Is Frank's wages going to be limited? Will he give back the money he got from Fannie/Freddie? Or will he be responsible for the money Fannie/freddie last while he was in charge? The guy is a moron.
Just thinking out loud. Barney and Co. couldn't set the cap too low could they? If they did then even all the bleeding heart liberals would have great cause for concern. If they don't allow the top wage earners to stand tall then who will be paying for all their social programs? Mathematically this seems pretty simple the less you allow someone to make the less you can take away in taxes. Watch out you will be next! I think Barney's pay should be capped at 1 dollar ( I'm being generous so we can have something to take away in taxes.)
You know this guy was doing oversight when Fannie and Freddie tanked. You really have to wonder what his motives are. One thing seems clear, it is not anything that will benefit the economy or the hardworking people in this country. BTW the people in charge of those failed institutions took home millions ( >100) in bonuses. Where is the outrage. Let's at least get that back.
The Supreme Court cannot take up these matters until a person with cause brings them. It is a long process, starting at the lower court level. I believe that if some of the governors not wanting all of the stimulus money are forced to take it, they will have a direct case very soon. Also, if some of the salary caps come into play, I bet there will be some lawsuits filed. Research on if the courts got involved in any of the Nixon era price/wage controls, which were supposed to be temporary measures to cure an economy eerily similar to what we are facing now (with the dollar). As a side note, though a very important one, the price and wage control program designed to stimulate the economy and lower inflation, stagnated the economy and double inflation. And those price/wage controls only lasted 1000 days!!! Image what Obama and the gang could do with "permanent controls". UGH.
Elmo, you can't set standards for yourself, and different standards for someone else. Either we are free or we are not. I get a bonus check, and I earn it. If you say no more bonuses, you will take food from my children's mouths. I can't abide by one group of people being forced to the back of the bus.
Don't know what "bonuses" have to do with my post. Never mentioned that word. Please re-read.
The assertion that "either we are free or we are not" really clarifies nothing because the proposition is so absurdly general as to be functionally useless. Taken literally, everyone should be "free" to drive as fast or as slow as everyone wants to anywhere and at anytime.
Please explain how a community that agrees to capping earnings beyond an agreed upon number (say, 100% tax on every penny of income generated via speculative investment pegged to changes in currency valuation, above $10 million per year) takes food from the mouths' of the children of the person whose speculative practices generate the income?
Read. Think. Then post. Thanks.
Or, at least as an interim measure, we could campaign for a freeze in salary increases…. That would be more likely to be passed
I want to know WHO decided that anyone earning $250K was "RICH" and on par with Trump, Gates, Oprah, etc??? There are many hard working people earning at the low end of "rich" . Many 2-income couples will completely loose the income of their spouse to taxes! Who wants to work all year for nothing? I have been writing my elected officials daily, but they do not care, they just want our money!
Merely the gateway to hell. Flatly unconstitutional as far as I am concerned. Now what are you going to do about it?
I have a problem with limitations on how much one can earn. Of course, this has nothing to do with capping millions that accrue to the super-duper wealthy as a result of interest on their riches. That's not "earning" money. "Earning" money means working. Moving bits and pieces of one's furtune around in order to exploit miniscule gains and losses on speculative investment is not "earning" jack.
Elmo, why are you so jealous of another's success? If they have millions and hold it in a bank, they are paid interest. The bank also uses their money to make money for the bank. When millionares invest in the market, speculative investing or not, sometimes they make money, sometimes they lose it. Who are you to say the gain is wrong or not worthy of protection from seizure by the government? These speculators are often the driving force behind innovation and entrepreneurship. And by the way, those "super-duper wealthy" already carry like 90% of the tax burden in this country.
Another question: when someone wins the lottery, do you feel the same anger and resentment towards their un-earned speculative success? Probably not.
We are taking a stand. We are here.
WE'RE HERE, WE'RE IN GEAR– GET USED TO IT, BARNEY. WE WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN…
It is time for term limits to be added to the constitution as an amendment and VOTED ON BY THE PEOPLE, not just the do-nothings in office.
I wish this were so. There are only two avenues for an amendment.
A: A two-thirds majority of both the House and the Senate needs to pass the amendment, which is then sent to the states for ratification. It must be approved by three-fourths — 38 — of the 50 states. Congress normally will set a time limit, typically seven years, for the states to act.
B: The Constitution allows for a second method of amendment, which has never been used. Two-thirds of the state legislatures would call for a Constitutional Convention (search) where amendments would be proposed, then sent to the states for approval.
above taken from: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,112348,00.htm...
Wouldn't it be great if we could have enough states use the never before used option of the Constitutional Convention, especially given the assault on state's rights we have already seen from the Obama administration?
Maybe this is an avenue we can take. If enough of us start petitions in our our states to demand such action, could we acheive it?
It is time for term limits to be added to the constitution as an amendment and VOTED ON BY THE PEOPLE, not just the do-nothngs in office.
I think we should only cap politian's pay! Starting with Nancy, Barney, Harry, Chris, Chuck, Charlie and the rest of BHO's band of theives on the Hill. Setting term limits, cutting their pay and taking back their free gov. cars, free fuel, planes, free insurance…my god think how much $$ we as American Tax Payers would save. When their term is up so are their bennies…….I bet they change their minds real quick.
I'll bet if Frank and his croonies pay was based on performance, they would own the american taxpayers a large portion of their salaries for payments accepted under false pretentions. Before Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, Reid or any ot the others wanting any control of wage earners standard of living, they should clean their own houses. They all need to study and practice Glenn's 9 Principles and 12 Values. Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, Reed, etc. need to be removed from office just as Stevens was.
These are the same people that get to vote on their pay raises. Term limits, insurance like everyone else and no more golden parachute retirement plans. We need a return to citizens being represented by regular citizens and not elitists who make 1 set of rules for us to abide by and another for them to abide by.
<DIV>Forgot completely his boy toy worked for Freddie or Fannie forgot which one, no conflict here!
It's amazing Barney Frank and the other Political elite in Washington will be able to make as much money as thay want. While you and I will be restricted by our owen Government thru wage caps and taxes. Our Country is looking more and more like a Monarchy !!! Where the King and the Lords have all the power. And we the people are supjects, waiting around to be thrown scraps from the table like a Dog……..
Ease off the trigger please. Indeed it will take something dramatic but we're not going to start goring them like my cousins at yellowstone. What if we got 10 million people to protest all at once. The fear would set in on them somewhat and we all could use that to set this country straight. What's the worst that could happen? Fear can be more effective than force. Besides, I'm a gentle bull.
Isn't this bill unconstitutional or something? oh yeah… these people burn the constitution… Btw, doesn't that mean they can assign all of us minimum wage and give themselves millions?
Part 2
-During Herb Moses', executive of Fannie Mae and Frank's so-called "spouse's" , tenure at the company, Frank lobbied hard to broaden the company's ability to provide high-risk borrowers with mortgage loans.
-In a Feb. 1998 issue of National Mortgage News it was reported that Herb Moses played a huge part in developing many of Fannie Mae's, afordable housing and home improvement lending programs. Acts that started loosening the financial lending laws, leading to the mess we see today.
–Also while Moses was at Fannie Mae, Frank stopped, an attempt by, Bush 41 from transfering oversight of Feddie and Fannie from congress and the Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to a new agency created under the Treasury Dept. Bush 41 feared congress and the DHUA was incapable of the oversight of such a huge corporation.
-Frank never saw any conflict of interest whatsoever. And anyone who protested his moves in congress were called homophobic or prejudiced. That is his standard practice.
-Barney Frank avocated cutting the military budget by 25%.
-He was opposed to the "Respect For America's Fallen Heroes Act"- It would have limited protests during the funerals of our fallen heroes. Frank called it unconstitutional-(hypocritically invoking the constitution in one breath and in the next trying to strip us of our constitutional rights.)
-Voted against the "Partial Birth Abortion Ban."
-Voted against the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act."
-Against criminalization of the transportation of minors across state line by family non-member to circumvent local abortion law. And in some cases circumventing the age of consent laws.
Lets limit our publically elected officials salary cap to match that of the average mean income of our citizens.
I actually don't knowwhy he keeps getting elected. He is not John or Bobbie and is a total alcoholic and a cancer on America. Why can't youget rid of him…? Hopefully he is done now.
Much of this has been said before but I'll pile on…
Public money should not be given to private companies in the first place. This bill should be a moot point. Government attempts to legislate what an individual can earn goes against our basic freedoms and is the worst form of government interference. Its another form of confiscating personal property, your skills and earning potential.
We also already have ways of dealing with this. AIG should be in bankruptcy where existing compensation can be formally addressed and restructured.
A related problem is board participation. Failure should have a price. If boards were better staffed with the interests of their shareholders, there would be fewer issues with compensation for non-performance. Take GE CEO Immelt for example. Why is that man still the CEO? Because they have an agenda aligned with the Obama administration and the board is stacked.
In the end, we as a country must pay more attention to the non-performers in government (and on boards), regardless of party and get rid of them by voting better. Why are we surprised that professional politicians who have never run a business can't get it right? They don't even realize they are cutting their own throats and business will flee or shut down. Where will the government's bonuses and pensions come from then?
Government must spend less and provide more economic freedom or we will cease to be free! Next up, not only how much you can earn but what vocation is best suited to your abilities…
I want to set some limits too. All congressman should earn a salary while actively representing the people. If a person is NOT re-elected than they will NOT receive a Lifetime of Pay from the GOV. They will need to just as we and find a new job! How much money are we paying our former congressman which even if they did a good job don't deserve a Lifetime of Salary. Does this make ZERO sense or what? If it makes sense than I say that we should mandate this for all companies? I have 9 years in my current position…I would perhaps think differently about my future if I was guaranteed a salary forever!
Serious questions: What are the legal steps that citizens can take to bring a class action lawsuit against our government? We should be threatening to do so at the Tea Parties if we have a legal leg to stand on. Also, what is the legal definition of Treason, and can we pursue it on Frank and Dodd, if not others?
OH No, Obama is on the tube again. He just kissed up big time and said the thing he loves the most about England are its people. Guess the teleprompter is working again. But he forgot to mention Queen Elizabeth so he had to come back quickly and add her name. This man is so inexperienced and it shows so much. I'm embarrassed of him. They had to tell Obama that when the Queen stops eating, he has to stop eating too.
That's what a lot of people are suggesting and Glenn loves those ideas of term limits.
patriotsinva-I totally agree with you. Where is the Supreme court? Are they sitting back on their haunches?
Maybe they are all in a drug induced coma. Either way, they need to start acting on behalf of the citizens of
the USA
Maybe we need a new party called Conservatives instead of Republican and then we will find out how many republicans are true conservatives.
When a person can have a traffic accident, drown a girl, and not notify anyone until the next day, then you know they have big friends. Big protective friends.
Oh, and let's not forget–morals, values, and great ethics…..
But can they investigate themselves? LOL.
Not so anything would get done about it…That's why it's called an independent investigation. Independent of them….
Probably because he hasn't broken any laws; he just shows that he doesn't know anything. So I don't think he can be fired for stupidity, but in my world, he would be. I think receiving campaign funds during which time his boyfriend worked at Fannie, may come close enough to a conflict of interest though. Any lawyers on this group?
I feel really bad for the auto workers. They are smack-dab in the middle. And the sad thing is our economic turmoil will most probably hurt your benefits that you worked for and were promised. But when the money isn't there, the people can lose big time. Much like my family members who lost all of their health care and benefits after 30 years of working in another industry. But if that happens to you, then Obama will at least give you nationalized health care. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. I sympathize with the union workers, but the unions have not done any of you any favors. I won't buy an American car; union products just cost too much, especially in today's world. Best of luck to you.
It is beyond time for people like B. Frank, C. Dodd, N. Pelosi, H. Read, M. Waters, D. Durbin, C. Wrangell, J. McCain, and and host of other spiker-web encrusted politicians to step aside. These congressmen and senators are like people you invite to a party hoping they will have the decency to go home when the party is over, but opt to rudely stay all night. The trampling of the constitution by the Obama socialist machine is like mercury poured from a tube…have you ever tried to pick up all the little droplets it morphs into?? It is nearly impossible. Just like the mercury, our constitutional rights are being spilled out…one drop at a time…until one day we wake up and wonder what just happened…keep up the good fight 912ers.
"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing." John Adams 1765
I wonder if they are attending any Tea Parties? They could surely make everyone happier during the peaceful protests.
Agreed. A gal formerly from Texas with pretty grounded Texas roots. Since people are grouping people into categories of intelligence (like if you sound dumb, you probably are (stupid comment), I wonder how well the white power movement is doing with all of this. They have sure been quiet. Did they leave the USA?
Umbramajor: So why don't you tell us how you really feel? ROFL! HA. Too funny.
Does Barney Frank, and all the rest of congress get sallary caps? And how about including all those campaign contributions as non-deductable income. Than, all the hundreds of millions that Obama raised for his campaign should be taxed at 90%. No double standard here.
Barney is also one of the loudest mouths on the AIG scandal, while doing the "watch my mouth, not my hands" on the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac bailout money. Don't forget people how much he is in bed with that outfit! He's trying to get the focus off of them by yelling so loudly over AIG.
And that's literally the Truth! HIs boyfriend worked there so the "he is in bed with that outfit" rings absolutely TRUE. I have a dream and it is that these Congress people who highly contributed to the housing mess and the lack of regulations along the way, be shamed in a Public Square.
With as much money as he makes (steals from us) he should be able to afford a good speach therapist.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/01/lawmak...
Is Barney the Only problem? Excerpt:
"Capitol Hill bonuses in 2008 were among the highest in years, according to LegiStorm, an organization that tracks payroll data. The average House aide earned 17 percent more in the fourth quarter of the year, when the bonuses were paid, than in previous quarters, according to the data. That was the highest jump in the eight years LegiStorm has compiled payroll information.
Total end-of-year bonuses paid to congressional staffers are tiny compared with the $165 million recently showered on executives of American International Group Inc., which is being propped up by billions of dollars of U.S. government subsidies. But Capitol Hill bonuses provide a notable counterpoint to the populist rhetoric and sound bites emanating from Washington these past weeks."
When people realize that the government is not the answer for everything, the masses will start to wake up. Until that time, most are still stuck in some 'envy' whether it is class, social, you name it, people covet what someone else has to the point where they feel it is not deserved. Government can not step in to this degree and be a good thing. We need to take a step back and look at reality for what it is. At this point it is only legislation on one side of congress, but if it gains any steam and somehow manages to squeak though both sides, the slippery slope is going to be devastating.
A friend of mine who lives here on this island we are on, went home to Ohio last week and also visited Tennessee. Some people in Tennessee must not listen to Fox because they were shocked that she was telling them a lot of what is happening in Washington. Their answers were: Oh, Obama would never do that, he promised us wonderful changes; it'll be okay, he just needs more time. They told her: you are making this stuff up because you don't like him. By the way, she doesn't dislike Obama, she's just terrified like the rest of us who have our thinking caps on and listen to what DC is saying and doing.
People, we must get the word out more than we are. If people in Tennessee for crying out loud aren't aware of what's happening to their freedoms, then more Tea Parties need to be held in that state!
That is just it. People have decided to bury their head in the sand and pull the 'hear no evil, see no eveil, speak no evil' crap out of the woodwork. BHO supporters believe if they scream loud enough they will override the masses and shut the rest of us up due to the din created. Generally, the more loudly you defend something, the less factulally based the subject is. Truth does not need a defense, it is evident.
With everything the government is attempting to do, it will be a matter of time for the house of cards to come tumbling down in a heap. The issue will be are we able to recover and to what extent?
<DIV> Richard Riley
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
From: notifications@intensedebatemail.com
To: cptriley6493@hotmail.com
Subject: Islandsox replied to your comment on How Much Money Can You Earn? Barney Frank Wants To Set Those Limits
I didn't mean to start a bash of Barney Frank. I have some bad opinions of him and one is his voice (which he could fix if he wanted to). But I don't think it is a Boston accent. I am not sure who came up with that but I have never herd of it. He AND the voters who re-elected are all a shame to our country. Barney Frank didn't just become a pest of American this has been going on for a long time now. He is a good bit of the reason our country is in the recession it is now. No one from the liberal side wants us to question or disagree with them. But I do believe it is possible to get along without agreeing on lifestyle. I have done this many times and have very good friends who have chosen this lifestyle but don't seak or act in such ways as he does.I don't think he should be allowed to publically throw it around. I am sick of hearing about him, his boyfriend, and the things they have done to America. I don't care he is gay that doesn't bother me. What does is his despicable actions and attitude (and voice). He is behind all this AIG crap just so the common people, who just watch their local news and don't follow this like we do, get side tracked and angry at the AIG people. This is the new tactics of the Obama administration and Frank is the example they are following. I think we need to get the facts out about this guy to everyone we can. Including at the tea parties. But the bashing won't get us far. Although I have enjoying poking some fun above and I still think he needs a mental evaluation and some speech therapy.
Hi OldMarine. I'm proud to be American, and proud to be a fellow redneck. A buddy of Foxworthy and Larry (think it was Ron White) said "you can't fix stupid." And I believe a Kennedy matriarch said 'One who is educated only in school is not educated.' You have more insight and intelligence than those bozos (my apologies to clowns everywhere) running our country could ever acquire. You may have more degrees or less degress. It matters not. You (and many others on this site) have common sense.
“Common sense is not so common.” …..Voltaire
How true it is in our Government
Absolutely, I agree with Timmy's theory. Anyone that takes tax payers money should be limited as to how much they make. However Timmy and Barnie, you forget you are paid by taxpayers dollars. I as a tax payer say you should only make one dollar a year. We are coming for your money. Hey you opened the door. We are just walking through.
Easy does it, Umbra,
Don't fire till you see the brown of their eye…
Lock and Load, praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition…
Mugwumps are graduates from Wattsamatta U…
Ready on the left, ready on the right… Hi Diddle Diddle, Right up the Middle…
NOBODY screws God…
Let's limit the amount of money any politician can SPEND or EARN. Did you know that Congress gave out bonuses to their staff members from OUR tax dollars? And while we are at it, let's limit the number of terms any person can serve in Congress (2 terms max for House and Senate). The more I hear from Washington DC, the more I want to burn the city down and start over. We don't need these professional lawyers protecting their own while we pay for the wasted spending…grumble, grumble, grumble!
Yes, and Nancy Pelosi said the bonuses were warranted because they were a small "perk" for government workers who don't earn much money. By the way, they earned $100,000 to get their new "perk."
Here's a twist on my PA Dutch. Throw Barney over the fence to-day. (Paraphrased from the well known 'throw the cow over the fence some hay')
Once again, those few REAL conservatives left in Washington…any of you who do not have skeletons lurking in your closet preventing you from doing what your taxpayers BACK HOME SENT YOU TO DO…STAND UP…SHOUT OUT…FIGHT BACK…find a TV camera, a conservative talk show…JUST DO SOMETHING!! The trampling of the constitution by these people is like pouring mercury from a tube onto the ground….ever try to get it all back in the tube?…IT NEVER HAPPENS?! IF I WAS A CONSERVATIVE IN WASHINGTON TODAY, I WOULD BE EMBARRASSED TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE ON THIS SITE AND OTHERS ARE SAYING ABOUT MY LACK OF GUTS WHEN IT COMES TO CONFRONTING THE OBAMA SOCIALIST MACHINE!!
Article 1:Section 9 of the US Constitution- Limits on Congress
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Does that mean We can Impeach all of them who are persuing this
Yay, my school has the site blocked as "advertisement". Can't read the article all the way…
But judging from the headline on here, it makes me want to slam my head repeatedly into a desk. Obama is doing nothing more than tearing apart our nation.
I would like to see Legislation that measures the performance of government employees and allows for the termination of non performing employees. The same legislation should also place a cap on the number of government employees. I believe that since the Constitution recommends and allows for control of the Government by the People, this legislation would pass Constitutional muster and review.
Barney Frank should be tried as a traitor to this country and punished accordingly.
Here we see the after aftermath of yet another congressional witch hunt. It takes little imagination to know where this Act can go.
Where on earth is the Supreme Court in all of this mess? Someone affected needs to challenge these laws on the basis of the constitution. We have THREE branches of government, but we are only hearing about two of them.
In reality I think we only have one branch of government left. The Executive Branch. With a majority liberal Congress the influence of the Administration and White House is obvious. I still think that the greatest dangers the American People have to face is the centralization of power in the White House. Today, Obama can say or do anything he wishes and the Senate (Reed and Dowd) and the House (Pelosi and Frank) ram it thru congress using questionable tactics to shunt discussion and force votes. Why does every session of the House start with a liberal asking to "Suspend the Rules?" Why have rules if you are going to suspend them at every action of importance?
I agree whole heartedly. If congress is over reaching their constitutional bounds, just HOW do we the people rein them in? We are all affected by these laws that are coming down fast and furious.
We treat these people as if 911 happened this morning and they were the perpetrators…we do not forget when we vote. Everyone meanwhile needs to put legs on their thoughts and call, email, or contact personally your representatives in congress.
"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing." John Adams 1765
Someone has to file a lawsuit first. Like if the AIG bonus contracts were to be taxed at 90%, then a lawsuit would be filed and most probably would have been upheld. Someone needs to talk to a Constitutional Lawyer to find out how file a suit against our government and what the multiple charges could or could not be. Anyone know a Constitutional lawyer?
OMG, wasn't Obama a Constitutional Law expert? !!!!!!!
Mark Lavin is a radio talk show host. He is a constitutional lawyer and has a number #1 best seller out now called Liberty and Tyrany. Must be a great book!
GLENN: Please have a Constitutional Lawyer on your show to discuss this latest proposed threat to our rights. Everyone needs to wake up and see that it could be YOUR salary affected. First it will be the bankers and the auto workers, but then it will reach much further. Anyone who works in a job that is touched by governmental money would be potential targets of this legislations. White collar and blue collar alike. With large or small paychecks. Gov hands its hands in everything…healthcare, science and med research, manufacturing, the arts, museums, sports, construction, energy………do you want YOUR paycheck determined by the government?
Mr. Frank is a lawyer, not an economist. What exactly qualifies him to chair the "Financial Services Committee" anyway? He has no economic experience or education. Even a single semester of economics would teach you the folly of price (or pay) controls by the government.
That's the point, he is NOT qualified, thus why he heads that committee. God forbid there be any qualified people running our country for if there were, we would be in pretty good shape today.
Wage caps are as bad as wage minimums. Both of them are damaging because they take control from the people and put them in the hands of an overseer. In this case in the hands of the government.
The Fed has continually shown its incompetence as an entity and to my view should never have been brought into the economic picture. The more they get involved the greater control they are trying to take. When you have honorable people representing it isn't a big deal, but it does leave an area where one that desires power could come in and pervert the authority taken.
The authority to run the country should be in the hands of the people. The laws come from the representatives and are enforced by the judiciary. Why do we need these people that should be making laws running companies?
The true collapse of our economy will happen when everyone from comapnys like AIG decide that they have had enough, and quit. Personally I would almost rather see that happen, than watch the debt pile up on my son before he even learns to talk.
Sell everything and move to Roatan! We did 8 years ago. We have laws here, but they don't enforce them. You can have a peaceful life living on an island with turquoise water and warm weather 11 months out of the year. Your son could be home-schooled or enter a private school for American kids here. Taxes on our 3,000 sq ft house are $40 a year.
Barney's ties to ACORN and the huge amount of illicit monies he has gained from all the very companies and entities that are now getting bailouts, handouts and unlimited access to OUR money, should be a barrior to his having control over anyone's money. There should be a red flag on his name that comes up whenever he has a chance introduce a Bill, or cast a vote concerning our money that prevents him from introducing a Bill or casting a vote!
Of course in a perfect world, he would be sitting in jail with Madoff and working on a chain gang where he makes a penny a day!
barney's ties to ACORN and the huge amount of illicit monies he has gained from all the very companies and entities that are now getting bailouts, handouts and unlimited access to OUR money, should be a barrior to his having control over anyone's money. There should be a red flag on his name that comes up whenever he has a chance introduce a Bill, or cast a vote concerning our money that prevents him from introducing a Bill or casting a vote!
Of course in a perfect world, he would be sitting in jail with Madoff and working on a chain gang where he makes a penny a day!
Obviously Mr. Frank is too big to fail or be held to the same standards and laws you or I would be held to. “Laws” and “standards” are simply “friendly suggestions” to those in Washington.
The saddest part of the story is that even IF the voters in Massachusetts don't re-elect him, and he's out of Washington, he'll still collect an almost six-figure salary every year for the rest of his life courtesy of the US Tax Payer.